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foreign

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[Applause]

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foreign

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foreign

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[Music]

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hello everybody broadcasting live from

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the Great Northern Wilderness I bid you

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good evening good morning good afternoon

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wherever you are around the continent

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around the world my name is Campbell

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marrera and this is the invisible night

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school for those of you just joining us

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ins was founded by a group of

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researchers and academics analytically

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exploring the study of UFO culture

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paranormal phenomena and epistemology

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among other things

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ins is not a monolith we represent

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varied ideas backgrounds disciplines and

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experiences and seek to engage in good

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faith dialogue with other curious minds

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and with that let me bring on my

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co-hosts for this evening Nick and

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Louise hey guys looking forward to this

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one how y'all doing

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good all right

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unfortunately Leah will not be with us

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this week but I'm certain that you will

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be back soon for this evening Louise you

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have so graciously offered to give us a

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bit of a story from the

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history books of the UFO culture I

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suppose we would call it

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um yeah the uh it sort of ties in with

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the sort of history of experiencers but

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in a more uh

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I don't know a more um

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because he uh he just this character

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that we're gonna get into he talks a lot

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about his experiences and what he saw

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and it's about like believing the word

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of the uh person it's an interesting

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continuation of that older history of

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people uh sort of reporting seeing

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aliens and now it's sort of reporting

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seeing things inside the government

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um yeah what do you think is the best

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way to introduce people to this mythical

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almost figure at this point Louise

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maybe um the context of the 1980s and

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into the 90s where um

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the UFO story became more paranoid it

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became more centered around government

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conspiracies and cover-ups

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um

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so like you know we had people on on the

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radio like um Cooper and you also had

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John Leo spouting a lot of insane crap

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friends with radar uh not surprisingly

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so I think that sort of background is a

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little bit important

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um I mean lizard didn't invent it um he

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kind of picked up on it but um it was

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kind of the right time for that because

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I think a lot of things in the American

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culture were sort of converging to that

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point

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General distrust of the government

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at that time

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um and the militia movements as well was

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becoming a big thing stuff like that and

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then Lazar kind of inserted himself into

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that

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um this character

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um he uh was uh originally kind of he

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would probably in modern terms be

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considered kind of these one of these

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sort of libertarian types right he like

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was sort of doing his own stuff out in

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the desert like uh yeah very skeptical

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of uh government in many ways that's

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pretty neat uh and concerning

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yeah and John Leo was kind of like that

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as well and so was uh

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Cooper always figured his first name but

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you know what I'm talking about

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I do not William is it William Cooper

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yeah yeah

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The Pale Horse

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um he um incidentally died in a shootout

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with police yeah

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um because of unpaid taxes apparently oh

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my gosh okay I've seen people talk about

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this guy and uh I've done like a cursory

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look into him and immediately just been

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like whoa whoa whoa okay no no that's uh

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so he was on the radio you're saying

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yeah he hosted a radio show I believe

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I've never listened to it actually

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myself but it's kind of like Alex Jones

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before Alex Jones I guess okay like

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anti-tax and stuff obviously yeah

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alien conspiracies but then he sort of

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dropped that and he was basically saying

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that the aliens were themselves a

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conspiracy by the government to cover up

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stuff

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I think he accurately predicted uh

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a broken clock or whatever I guess so

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you you were kind of setting the stage

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uh the early 80s there was the late 70s

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early 80s this kind of um Resurgence of

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distrusting government because there was

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a seed of that in the beginning in the

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40s yeah I would say more like in the

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late 80s okay and then certainly into

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the 90s with the um the X-Files and all

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those items

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um but I mean suddenly even at the

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beginning of the contact team movement

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there were some musings about government

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uh cover-ups but it wasn't nearly to the

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extent that it would be later on right

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so uh Lazar was kind of um

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yeah as you say cannibal kind of a I

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guess you would call him a Libertarian

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type these days

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um because he was um very much into I

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still is into kind of pyrotechnics and

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uh doing experiments and stuff like that

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um

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uh going out into the desert and blowing

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crap up

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um

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model UFO was uh called this yeah the

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sport model which is sort of I think

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like a unconscious tell about his love

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for sports cars and all those sorts of

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things so there's a lot of like little

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hints in his story that if you

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consider them from the perspective of

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like what business psychology

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like it could tell you a lot of things

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and I think a lot of UFO conspiracy

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theorists um people who tell stories

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like him they kind of give away the game

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by unconsciously like

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um

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drip dripping their stories with like

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these little things here and there

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well let's what what are the if you

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could like kind of summarize what are

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the claims of Bob Lazar

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that he was um

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that he had worked at um Los Alamos

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National Laboratory as a physicist

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although he never had worked there as a

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physicist he was a technician he was um

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hired out by Kirk Meyer which was a

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a contractor back then they um you know

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would hire out technicians and people

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like that so the government agencies

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including the National Laboratories

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Lazar worked there for a maximum of I

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think eight or nine months according to

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the research of signals intelligence he

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wrote up a um an article he did a foia

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request actually

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and he sort of bounded

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the time that Lazar could have worked

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out Lionel and it was I think eight

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months maximum so there was no time for

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him to become a physicist he didn't have

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any um formal qualifications in that

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field either he claimed that he had um a

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master's degree from MIT in

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magnetohydrodynamics which was

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incidentally a um UFO related topic that

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was doing the rounds and documentaries

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on TV right I think that was like clout

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chasing basically to the UFO crowd

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ironically unless I would later say that

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he he didn't know why they hired him

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he's just a guy even though he's got a

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good degree

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Republic topic so um

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and then his other claim is that he got

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a another master's degree from uh

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Caltech in electronics engineering

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um no evidence for that one either no

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documentation in his own possession

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um

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he can't name in any of the professors

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that would have supervised them from

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obviously he doesn't have those degrees

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um

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then he claims that he was

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um while working at Lano he was um

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talking to uh Edward Teller who was like

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the father of the

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the hydrogen bomb famous um very um

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anti-communist physicist and

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um he claims that basically teller got

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him the job at S4 which is meant to be

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this uh facility near Area 51 right

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right

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um

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he says that he uh you know he he went

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to S4 he was given like a briefing about

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um sort of the background to the alien

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engineering program that they have nine

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flying sources stored there

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um I don't know why you'd have like nine

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of them if there's an accident like

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wouldn't they all be taken out but

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anyway

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yeah that does seem like a really bad

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um he says that the um S4 facility was

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uh dug into the side of Papu's Mountain

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which kind of to the South Southwest of

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Area 51 The Groom Lake facility it's

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very specific

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yeah he says that he was taken

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to Area 51 on the Janet flights um which

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is true like they do the Personnel do go

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on Janet flights

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it's like a specially commissioned um

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Airline uh

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to for for

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um employees of area 51.

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um

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so it's true that they do go on that

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flight and some people have said that he

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could only have known that if he was

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actually inducted into that program but

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in fact he was friends with John Leo who

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had himself worked at the Nevada Test

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Site during the early 80s he was also

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friends with somebody called um Jim

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tagliani who was a electronics engineer

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or technician at the tonopar test range

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which was doing like electronic warfare

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and other secret

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um projects so like he could have gotten

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any of these um logistical details from

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those sorts of people fed it into his

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story

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he says that once he got to Area 51 he

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was um put onto a boss and then it would

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drive out to Papoose and then he entered

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the S4 facility which housed the flying

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sources and that he worked on a

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particular Flying Saucer the um the one

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that he called the sport model because

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of its very

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sort of sleek appearance in fact it's

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almost like a carbon copy of a billy

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Meyer yeah I was about to ask that it

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looked extremely similar to one of them

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yep yep and um so just the beam ship

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thing that originates in a VHS tape

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recording of a is that correct uh am I

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remembering this right no there's a

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photographer named Billy okay

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um and he created a lot of uh hoax

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photographs of different types of

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saucers I think uh I think if one of

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them called maybe it's called the

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wedding cake there's like a really

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distinctive Ridge on one of the edges

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and you were people were able to

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identify like the the common object it

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was made out of the

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um really beautiful photos but they are

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hoaxes of course and let me see if I can

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find one yeah cool okay actually if you

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know if um in the first couple seasons

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of The X-Files uh maulders original I

281
00:13:15,370 --> 00:13:14,459
want to believe poster is a billy Meyer

282
00:13:18,410 --> 00:13:15,380
photograph

283
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:18,420
yeah that's the uh the saucer that looks

284
00:13:21,949 --> 00:13:20,399
pretty similar to that sports model I

285
00:13:24,590 --> 00:13:21,959
think yeah

286
00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:24,600
okay and um Billy Meyer is still kicking

287
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:26,220
around in Switzerland

288
00:13:31,069 --> 00:13:29,519
um he's a figure uh I don't want to call

289
00:13:34,490 --> 00:13:31,079
it a cult because maybe that's too

290
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:34,500
extreme but um he's sect they um talk

291
00:13:38,930 --> 00:13:36,240
about these space Brothers uh these

292
00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:38,940
plush Aarons who he's supposedly been in

293
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,120
contact with for decades oh right yeah

294
00:13:45,889 --> 00:13:43,920
they've got kind of like a menagerie of

295
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:45,899
flying sauces including the beam ships

296
00:13:50,690 --> 00:13:48,240
yeah that sort of thing that I think the

297
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:50,700
third one there yeah the third one is

298
00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:54,000
warts model essentially or that uh that

299
00:13:59,389 --> 00:13:56,220
one there next to the um I think it's a

300
00:14:01,310 --> 00:13:59,399
painting down on the right yeah this

301
00:14:03,550 --> 00:14:01,320
this weird thing no no click on the

302
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:03,560
third one again

303
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,519
I'm screwing this up again

304
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:09,600
bottom right

305
00:14:17,629 --> 00:14:14,399
that picture that painting yeah okay

306
00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:17,639
that is the Bulbasaur sports model if I

307
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:27,110
sports model yes

308
00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:30,720
oh there okay very Sleek there was um

309
00:14:35,210 --> 00:14:33,000
those kind of horror darken window panes

310
00:14:36,769 --> 00:14:35,220
up at the top the portholes I believe

311
00:14:39,790 --> 00:14:36,779
they call them right yeah you're right

312
00:14:43,790 --> 00:14:39,800
nice give me yeah

313
00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:43,800
okay interesting all right well and yes

314
00:14:48,530 --> 00:14:46,740
um Nick mentioned there is a modal kit

315
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:48,540
that you can get it was sold by the

316
00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:50,880
attestas toy model company back in the

317
00:14:53,629 --> 00:14:51,720
day

318
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,639
wild true

319
00:14:57,290 --> 00:14:55,440
um even though LaSalle supposedly has

320
00:14:58,370 --> 00:14:57,300
never made a dime from his story he's

321
00:15:01,129 --> 00:14:58,380
actually

322
00:15:02,509 --> 00:15:01,139
made uh a lot of money from it although

323
00:15:06,650 --> 00:15:02,519
I wouldn't say that that's necessarily

324
00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:06,660
his primary uh motivation sure sometimes

325
00:15:11,810 --> 00:15:08,880
being a big fish in uh in a little Pond

326
00:15:14,090 --> 00:15:11,820
is motivation enough uh Jeff from uh

327
00:15:17,050 --> 00:15:14,100
strange Recons here and he says uh no no

328
00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:17,060
no they are sensors not Port lights

329
00:15:25,610 --> 00:15:23,629
so it was also says that he worked on

330
00:15:27,949 --> 00:15:25,620
the sport model specifically that he

331
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:27,959
wasn't allowed to

332
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,199
um kind of go near the other models the

333
00:15:35,750 --> 00:15:33,360
other flying sources even though he

334
00:15:38,569 --> 00:15:35,760
he saw them they got really poor

335
00:15:39,889 --> 00:15:38,579
security if you can just see them

336
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:39,899
um

337
00:15:44,449 --> 00:15:42,000
yeah they can compartmentalize things

338
00:15:45,949 --> 00:15:44,459
right yeah I mean the government does

339
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:45,959
obviously compartmentalize stuff

340
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:47,760
sometimes to um

341
00:15:52,610 --> 00:15:50,880
unreasonable degree but um here we're

342
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:52,620
just talking like

343
00:15:56,449 --> 00:15:54,360
to a degree that I don't think is really

344
00:15:57,889 --> 00:15:56,459
realistic um because if the government

345
00:16:00,769 --> 00:15:57,899
is so desperate

346
00:16:06,889 --> 00:16:04,129
um crack the UFO technology

347
00:16:08,930 --> 00:16:06,899
and hire somebody like him then why

348
00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:08,940
wouldn't they just let him

349
00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:12,120
have access to all the information

350
00:16:15,530 --> 00:16:13,260
yeah

351
00:16:17,449 --> 00:16:15,540
now he worked on these things I'm

352
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:17,459
assuming then he could uh kind of

353
00:16:22,370 --> 00:16:20,639
explain how they work correct he he came

354
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:22,380
up with some sort of a so-called

355
00:16:25,850 --> 00:16:25,199
explanations for the physics including

356
00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:25,860
um

357
00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:28,500
saying that they use gravity waves which

358
00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:29,760
is already a concept that was known

359
00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:32,760
about since like the early 20th century

360
00:16:35,569 --> 00:16:33,720
um

361
00:16:37,550 --> 00:16:35,579
I think Einstein talked about gravity

362
00:16:39,530 --> 00:16:37,560
waves

363
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:39,540
um he mentioned that the flying sources

364
00:16:45,009 --> 00:16:42,959
use Element 115 to power

365
00:16:48,350 --> 00:16:45,019
um to initiate an antimatter reaction

366
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:48,360
which then Powers the um

367
00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:51,360
or it Powers the systems on the ship and

368
00:16:56,509 --> 00:16:54,120
it amplifies the um

369
00:17:00,110 --> 00:16:56,519
the gravitational

370
00:17:02,329 --> 00:17:00,120
uh energy of the um element 115

371
00:17:06,110 --> 00:17:02,339
through these um it's also got like

372
00:17:08,929 --> 00:17:06,120
these uh sort of rectangular shaped um

373
00:17:11,030 --> 00:17:08,939
gravity amplifiers as he calls them sort

374
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:11,040
of near the bottom of the ship but the

375
00:17:16,250 --> 00:17:14,040
element 115 is used to it's inherently

376
00:17:17,809 --> 00:17:16,260
got gravitational properties according

377
00:17:19,449 --> 00:17:17,819
to him

378
00:17:22,250 --> 00:17:19,459
he claimed um

379
00:17:24,350 --> 00:17:22,260
that if you fire a laser beam over a

380
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:24,360
chunk of element 115 the laser would

381
00:17:28,429 --> 00:17:26,400
bend away from it

382
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:28,439
which I could require a crazy amount of

383
00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:31,679
gravity yeah and yes he also says

384
00:17:35,390 --> 00:17:33,540
Atlanta was like um involved in

385
00:17:37,490 --> 00:17:35,400
Machining the parts

386
00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:37,500
like no machine like you can't get near

387
00:17:44,029 --> 00:17:40,980
it if it's able to deflect later right

388
00:17:45,650 --> 00:17:44,039
yeah so this is just like complete

389
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:45,660
fantasy physics

390
00:17:50,930 --> 00:17:48,960
um it says that it was doing like a

391
00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:50,940
distorting the gravity in front of the

392
00:17:55,390 --> 00:17:53,220
ship or the space time so it was like

393
00:17:57,890 --> 00:17:55,400
basically pulling itself

394
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,900
destination that's actually pretty

395
00:18:00,890 --> 00:18:00,000
similar to some depictions in um

396
00:18:01,669 --> 00:18:00,900
previous

397
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:01,679
um

398
00:18:08,930 --> 00:18:07,200
well that's intriguing to me yeah

399
00:18:10,250 --> 00:18:08,940
because I haven't heard of that uh I

400
00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:10,260
mean because I don't know a ton about uh

401
00:18:14,029 --> 00:18:11,700
lazar's story but I hadn't heard about

402
00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:14,039
that specific claim uh with Lazar

403
00:18:17,870 --> 00:18:15,900
because so many people uh especially

404
00:18:20,090 --> 00:18:17,880
these days online like on forums on

405
00:18:23,630 --> 00:18:20,100
Reddit and stuff that's like the primary

406
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:23,640
uh ex-proposed explanation for some of

407
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:25,679
these modern UFOs like the way that they

408
00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:28,320
travel and stuff even uh endorsed by uh

409
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:31,260
Chris Mellon when he uh tweeted uh like

410
00:18:37,370 --> 00:18:34,559
UAP theory.com a couple years ago and

411
00:18:40,250 --> 00:18:37,380
he's a former assistant Deputy

412
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,260
um Secretary of defer yeah yes something

413
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:42,240
about intelligence so you know

414
00:18:46,010 --> 00:18:43,919
government official and stuff so you

415
00:18:47,930 --> 00:18:46,020
know it's a prominent thing and uh are

416
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:47,940
you saying that uh Lazar latched onto

417
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:49,440
this from something before him as well

418
00:18:55,370 --> 00:18:52,799
well there was lots of um musings about

419
00:18:58,250 --> 00:18:55,380
gravity or anti-gravity as the means of

420
00:19:00,830 --> 00:18:58,260
propulsion for UFOs this goes back to

421
00:19:02,810 --> 00:19:00,840
like the 1950s actually people were

422
00:19:04,850 --> 00:19:02,820
already thinking about this stuff the

423
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:04,860
government was also in the military were

424
00:19:09,310 --> 00:19:07,200
doing invest into the possibility of

425
00:19:12,289 --> 00:19:09,320
using gravity as a way to propel

426
00:19:15,169 --> 00:19:12,299
spacecraft or missiles or whatever

427
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:15,179
um that was kind of like um

428
00:19:21,950 --> 00:19:18,240
there's actually a very good article on

429
00:19:23,930 --> 00:19:21,960
uh what's it called the thedrive.com

430
00:19:25,130 --> 00:19:23,940
okay they've got like a military section

431
00:19:26,690 --> 00:19:25,140
there

432
00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:26,700
um it's a very long article about sort

433
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,380
of the the secret government in

434
00:19:32,270 --> 00:19:30,240
investigations into

435
00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:32,280
looking at gravity but it was just like

436
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:34,260
theoretical physics it didn't really

437
00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:35,760
lead anywhere

438
00:19:40,010 --> 00:19:38,520
so that's another thing well before I

439
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:40,020
get to that let me just finish your

440
00:19:43,490 --> 00:19:41,039
question though

441
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:43,500
um so gravity per se was already touted

442
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:46,559
as a way to propel

443
00:19:52,850 --> 00:19:50,640
um spacecraft but Lazar specific um

444
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:52,860
claim is that it was like creating a

445
00:19:57,710 --> 00:19:55,440
distortion in front of the spaceship and

446
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:57,720
that it was um basically pulling the

447
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:00,720
craft towards that distortion

448
00:20:05,690 --> 00:20:03,600
now um some of those claims

449
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:05,700
um

450
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:09,120
so something called the yakubia drive

451
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,559
um there was a physicist called out

452
00:20:14,510 --> 00:20:12,240
kubiere I don't know what his first name

453
00:20:16,430 --> 00:20:14,520
is but he wrote a paper where he

454
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:16,440
basically proposed something like this

455
00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:18,720
this was after Lazar and some people

456
00:20:24,169 --> 00:20:21,240
have used that to say you know look at

457
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:24,179
that Lazar was predicting something real

458
00:20:28,370 --> 00:20:26,640
but nobody's actually proven that you

459
00:20:30,169 --> 00:20:28,380
can

460
00:20:33,169 --> 00:20:30,179
um get that much gravity

461
00:20:35,330 --> 00:20:33,179
um in a concentrated you know area you

462
00:20:38,029 --> 00:20:35,340
need a lot of energy for that and it's

463
00:20:40,130 --> 00:20:38,039
only vaguely similar anyway

464
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:40,140
here the alcubio drive I think that was

465
00:20:46,909 --> 00:20:43,440
proposed in 1994 which was after Lazar

466
00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:46,919
oh yeah you kind of uh touched on this a

467
00:20:50,510 --> 00:20:48,360
second ago Louise but you said this is

468
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:50,520
all like highly theoretical stuff and

469
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:53,280
I've noticed that that is kind of the um

470
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,200
the type of physics that gets published

471
00:20:59,930 --> 00:20:57,600
in like popular science magazines and

472
00:21:02,210 --> 00:20:59,940
stuff all this uh non-applicable but

473
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:02,220
yeah what I like to call like Star Trek

474
00:21:06,770 --> 00:21:04,200
physics kind of like the stuff you see

475
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:06,780
um Eric Davis talk about now

476
00:21:11,630 --> 00:21:09,600
um so I mean it was very likely that

477
00:21:13,549 --> 00:21:11,640
this stuff was kind of circulating in

478
00:21:15,289 --> 00:21:13,559
pop culture in that kind of Popular

479
00:21:18,590 --> 00:21:15,299
Mechanics Popular Science magazine

480
00:21:21,230 --> 00:21:18,600
sphere right yeah yeah for sure in fact

481
00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:21,240
even the the you know sometimes you hear

482
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:23,820
claims about the um Nimitz encounters

483
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:26,880
or um sorry not the nimitzing couches um

484
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:29,039
the other one where you've got like the

485
00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:31,200
uh what's it called the not the go fast

486
00:21:39,289 --> 00:21:36,409
it's meant to be like a sideways sort of

487
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:39,299
tipping UFO and some people would say

488
00:21:44,029 --> 00:21:41,340
that that is it like moving exactly as

489
00:21:46,370 --> 00:21:44,039
lizards ascribed uh which it isn't it's

490
00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:46,380
just like Distortion from the IR camera

491
00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:47,820
right

492
00:21:54,169 --> 00:21:51,960
um but even if it was um similar

493
00:21:56,510 --> 00:21:54,179
um that's sort of um description of UFOs

494
00:21:58,130 --> 00:21:56,520
was already doing the rounds in the

495
00:21:59,870 --> 00:21:58,140
1950s

496
00:22:02,090 --> 00:21:59,880
and there are even some like photographs

497
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:02,100
of comported flying sources like tipped

498
00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:04,559
over on their sides

499
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:07,080
um Lazar also claimed that the

500
00:22:11,870 --> 00:22:09,600
gravitational interaction with the Earth

501
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:11,880
like between the Flying Saucer and the

502
00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:15,120
earth made the UFO sort of um

503
00:22:19,490 --> 00:22:17,880
kind of unstable at low speeds like

504
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:19,500
dotting around almost because of the

505
00:22:21,470 --> 00:22:20,640
gravitational

506
00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:21,480
um

507
00:22:25,370 --> 00:22:23,220
because you know a planet it's got like

508
00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:25,380
different densities on the surface so

509
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:26,580
the gravity is going to be a little bit

510
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,240
different as we fly over it

511
00:22:33,529 --> 00:22:31,919
um

512
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,539
that was

513
00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:35,760
um actually something that Billy Meyer

514
00:22:40,010 --> 00:22:38,760
said before interesting that sort of

515
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:40,020
idea

516
00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:42,240
um so I think maybe uh John Leah might

517
00:22:47,390 --> 00:22:45,240
have fed Liza some of those tropes

518
00:22:50,090 --> 00:22:47,400
um and sort of so-called technical

519
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:50,100
details about flying sources to Lazar I

520
00:22:53,870 --> 00:22:51,360
mean there's just too much of that stuff

521
00:22:55,549 --> 00:22:53,880
to take him seriously

522
00:22:57,169 --> 00:22:55,559
um even if we don't know exactly where

523
00:22:58,130 --> 00:22:57,179
all of his claims came from we can

524
00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:58,140
pretty much

525
00:23:03,289 --> 00:23:00,720
trace the inspiration for almost all of

526
00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:03,299
his claims what's interesting is like it

527
00:23:07,490 --> 00:23:05,460
is the whole UFO narrative as a whole

528
00:23:09,649 --> 00:23:07,500
gains any kind of feature it never is

529
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:09,659
very unique ever is it it's always

530
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:11,400
something drummed up by human

531
00:23:15,409 --> 00:23:14,159
imagination ahead of time anyway

532
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:15,419
mm-hmm

533
00:23:19,850 --> 00:23:17,280
and there's a consistent theme I'm

534
00:23:22,310 --> 00:23:19,860
seeing where um there are like there's

535
00:23:24,529 --> 00:23:22,320
like always like a kernel of like

536
00:23:27,049 --> 00:23:24,539
reality and then they're just these

537
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:27,059
layers of kind of like story added on to

538
00:23:28,610 --> 00:23:27,840
that

539
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:28,620
um

540
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:31,919
and uh it's the same sort of thing that

541
00:23:36,049 --> 00:23:34,260
we've seen throughout the subject in a

542
00:23:38,690 --> 00:23:36,059
variety of ways and you know when you

543
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:38,700
look at sort of propaganda Theory and

544
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:40,320
stuff like that you see that the most

545
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:43,679
compelling propaganda is the blend of

546
00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:46,559
Truth and fiction not just pure fiction

547
00:23:49,870 --> 00:23:47,220
um

548
00:23:53,390 --> 00:23:49,880
to what extent uh Louise like would you

549
00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:53,400
attribute uh like intentionality to Bob

550
00:23:58,370 --> 00:23:56,280
Lazar kind of like being

551
00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:58,380
um deceitful or do you think he sort of

552
00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:01,679
like believes it himself uh what's your

553
00:24:06,529 --> 00:24:03,720
read on his sort of like underlying

554
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,539
psychology uh not to get too deep into

555
00:24:11,210 --> 00:24:08,400
it but just generally

556
00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:11,220
I think that is uh he's not he doesn't

557
00:24:15,169 --> 00:24:12,780
believe what he's saying

558
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:15,179
um although it's certainly possible but

559
00:24:24,289 --> 00:24:22,909
he um especially with his educational

560
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:24,299
claims

561
00:24:27,470 --> 00:24:24,960
um

562
00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:27,480
that that already shows him that shows

563
00:24:31,549 --> 00:24:29,220
him to be the type of person who who

564
00:24:33,770 --> 00:24:31,559
could make up a flying source of story

565
00:24:35,390 --> 00:24:33,780
to get fame or attention

566
00:24:37,250 --> 00:24:35,400
like if you're going to lie about your

567
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:37,260
education and claim that you've got two

568
00:24:40,190 --> 00:24:38,880
master's degrees

569
00:24:41,390 --> 00:24:40,200
I don't think that there's any way that

570
00:24:43,250 --> 00:24:41,400
he could believe that he has two

571
00:24:45,470 --> 00:24:43,260
master's degrees

572
00:24:47,090 --> 00:24:45,480
right okay because like um you know

573
00:24:48,169 --> 00:24:47,100
obviously he's smart enough to know that

574
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:48,179
you would need

575
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:50,159
uh

576
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:54,720
mentions or the documents and stuff like

577
00:24:58,130 --> 00:24:56,280
that he's got absolutely none of that

578
00:25:00,830 --> 00:24:58,140
stuff and he keeps changing his story

579
00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:00,840
actually about them he now claims

580
00:25:05,450 --> 00:25:02,640
um that the Master's Degree was actually

581
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:05,460
a the MIT degree was actually like a

582
00:25:11,390 --> 00:25:07,440
secret

583
00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:11,400
um program that he was sent to do

584
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:13,260
and that he can't reveal what it was

585
00:25:16,430 --> 00:25:14,880
really about but it was something

586
00:25:18,970 --> 00:25:16,440
horrible

587
00:25:21,470 --> 00:25:18,980
okay but

588
00:25:24,110 --> 00:25:21,480
we never cleaned out before he was

589
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:24,120
saying that they erased him

590
00:25:27,230 --> 00:25:25,860
right they raise these records but now

591
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:27,240
he's saying that it was actually like a

592
00:25:31,070 --> 00:25:29,039
top secret project that he can't talk

593
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:31,080
about right there never were records

594
00:25:34,430 --> 00:25:32,880
yeah okay that's right it's uh

595
00:25:36,049 --> 00:25:34,440
interesting Phil and brogno who worked

596
00:25:38,090 --> 00:25:36,059
on the Hudson Valley case we talked

597
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:38,100
about a while ago uh I believe he also

598
00:25:43,130 --> 00:25:40,260
said he had a degree at MIT which he

599
00:25:45,649 --> 00:25:43,140
didn't uh but his excuse was that he

600
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:45,659
went under a pseudonym as Bob Lazar

601
00:25:50,450 --> 00:25:47,640
tried that one yet

602
00:25:52,430 --> 00:25:50,460
not on the MIT degree I don't think but

603
00:25:54,169 --> 00:25:52,440
he did use a pseudonym when he was first

604
00:25:56,510 --> 00:25:54,179
on TV

605
00:25:59,390 --> 00:25:56,520
um uh when George Knapp wrote the story

606
00:26:00,850 --> 00:25:59,400
he was in silly wet and he was calling

607
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:00,860
himself Dennis

608
00:26:06,830 --> 00:26:03,840
supposedly the name of his um supervisor

609
00:26:08,269 --> 00:26:06,840
or colleague at S4

610
00:26:10,010 --> 00:26:08,279
um he claimed that he was under threat

611
00:26:12,049 --> 00:26:10,020
from the government

612
00:26:14,930 --> 00:26:12,059
um and that he was trying to reveal the

613
00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:14,940
secrets of the base because his life was

614
00:26:18,529 --> 00:26:16,080
under threat

615
00:26:21,529 --> 00:26:18,539
apparently it wasn't because uh he's

616
00:26:23,710 --> 00:26:21,539
still alive exactly they never raised

617
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:23,720
his bank account

618
00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:26,340
that's that's another common thing

619
00:26:30,409 --> 00:26:28,200
um we hear from Men In Black stories too

620
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:30,419
they threaten your life if you uh you

621
00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:31,919
know tell the world these secrets but

622
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:33,480
we've all heard the Men in Black stories

623
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:35,520
from these people who survived to tell

624
00:26:39,649 --> 00:26:37,679
them that's that's another interesting

625
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:39,659
Trope in this story I don't know if it

626
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:42,240
comes from no Men In Black became way

627
00:26:47,149 --> 00:26:45,360
before yeah he does he comes he claims

628
00:26:49,310 --> 00:26:47,159
that he was basically roughed up by

629
00:26:51,890 --> 00:26:49,320
security men

630
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:51,900
um one night when he was um

631
00:26:57,649 --> 00:26:55,140
uh out with uh George maybe not George

632
00:27:01,250 --> 00:26:57,659
Napper with um John Leo

633
00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:01,260
and uh Gene Huff who was his business

634
00:27:04,850 --> 00:27:02,940
associate

635
00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:04,860
um they were out near the perimeter of

636
00:27:08,690 --> 00:27:05,580
um

637
00:27:10,970 --> 00:27:08,700
uh Papoose the general area and they

638
00:27:13,070 --> 00:27:10,980
were filming

639
00:27:15,049 --> 00:27:13,080
um you know with one of those ancient uh

640
00:27:16,669 --> 00:27:15,059
1980s camcorders

641
00:27:18,289 --> 00:27:16,679
um some lights in the sky which was

642
00:27:19,850 --> 00:27:18,299
supposedly test flights of the flying

643
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:19,860
sources

644
00:27:24,970 --> 00:27:23,279
and uh he got arrested and um

645
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:24,980
they threatened him

646
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,360
to kill him basically

647
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:29,279
but and they let him go for some reason

648
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:31,200
yeah

649
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:34,559
right don't worry everybody else uh we

650
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:36,900
have Jeff Knox here in the chat he's

651
00:27:42,289 --> 00:27:39,840
saying um that Bob Lazar says degrees

652
00:27:44,450 --> 00:27:42,299
don't matter but he was visiting friends

653
00:27:46,669 --> 00:27:44,460
who went to those schools and audited

654
00:27:49,610 --> 00:27:46,679
classes with them but he no longer

655
00:27:50,269 --> 00:27:49,620
claims to even have the degrees

656
00:27:51,890 --> 00:27:50,279
um

657
00:27:53,630 --> 00:27:51,900
let's see how many degrees he was

658
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:53,640
visiting France not at a classes and

659
00:28:00,289 --> 00:27:56,640
this is uh he told Linda Moulton Howe in

660
00:28:02,510 --> 00:28:00,299
99 interesting so I will take anything

661
00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:02,520
that um Linda says with a grain of salt

662
00:28:08,450 --> 00:28:06,179
but um okay yeah even she's saying that

663
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:08,460
Lazar is full of crap then

664
00:28:13,130 --> 00:28:10,559
the place that he is interesting well

665
00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:13,140
yeah that Beyond him not being able to

666
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:15,720
Black back up his extraordinary claims I

667
00:28:20,570 --> 00:28:17,760
mean we realized that his

668
00:28:23,690 --> 00:28:20,580
um his educational history is a lie and

669
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:23,700
makes him an unreliable person right it

670
00:28:27,409 --> 00:28:25,919
kind of begs the question why is he

671
00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:27,419
still prominent today like why is Joe

672
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:32,100
Rogan talking about him today in 2023 is

673
00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:34,799
it roganism arguably also sort of a

674
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:37,559
Libertarian type would you say yes yeah

675
00:28:42,590 --> 00:28:41,279
yeah and um I think that Liza's story

676
00:28:46,430 --> 00:28:42,600
kind of um

677
00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:46,440
segues into uh Rogan's ideology in a to

678
00:28:52,690 --> 00:28:49,820
a large extent so interesting yeah

679
00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:52,700
Rogan's interested in UFOs anyway and

680
00:28:58,010 --> 00:28:56,100
like big Cosmic questions uh

681
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:58,020
um and Lazar is sort of a good catch for

682
00:29:01,730 --> 00:29:00,000
that type of show because

683
00:29:04,610 --> 00:29:01,740
um you know he still believed by many

684
00:29:06,769 --> 00:29:04,620
people so he's actually got about 52

685
00:29:10,850 --> 00:29:06,779
million views now from that

686
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:10,860
um video incredible yeah even though he

687
00:29:20,810 --> 00:29:17,750
so you know all these sort of

688
00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:20,820
contradictory claims that Lazar makes

689
00:29:24,889 --> 00:29:22,260
um and there's also of course the

690
00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:24,899
brothels that he invested in he invested

691
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:27,539
in a brothel in the early 80s and then

692
00:29:32,990 --> 00:29:30,000
he did it again in the early 90s were

693
00:29:36,649 --> 00:29:33,000
these uh in states where it's legal or

694
00:29:39,470 --> 00:29:36,659
uh yeah okay but that in Nevada

695
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,480
um where it's apparently legal to do

696
00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:40,799
that but I mean that's not really the

697
00:29:45,710 --> 00:29:43,500
point yeah yeah is that um that would

698
00:29:48,529 --> 00:29:45,720
make you a KGB magnet

699
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:48,539
because um Soviet intelligence at the

700
00:29:52,130 --> 00:29:50,399
time was still very much active in the

701
00:29:54,769 --> 00:29:52,140
US trying to

702
00:29:56,570 --> 00:29:54,779
um get whatever Scoops they could on

703
00:29:58,490 --> 00:29:56,580
American secret programs especially

704
00:30:01,130 --> 00:29:58,500
Aerospace and weapons

705
00:30:03,409 --> 00:30:01,140
and um somebody like Lazar would be seen

706
00:30:05,570 --> 00:30:03,419
by Soviet intelligences

707
00:30:07,789 --> 00:30:05,580
um somebody you could compromise like

708
00:30:09,950 --> 00:30:07,799
you could blackmail him

709
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:09,960
um and so like that would already put a

710
00:30:14,029 --> 00:30:11,760
red line through his name if they're

711
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,039
trying to U.S government military is

712
00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:16,320
trying to you know recruit people for a

713
00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:18,360
program like that then there's also the

714
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:19,860
revelations about

715
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:24,000
um lazar's ex his wife um Carol who um

716
00:30:28,190 --> 00:30:26,159
apparently was in the Hell's Angels and

717
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:28,200
had been involved in a murder

718
00:30:40,250 --> 00:30:29,760
interesting

719
00:30:42,169 --> 00:30:40,260
yeah did the did the uh the brothel

720
00:30:43,690 --> 00:30:42,179
Investments take place before the

721
00:30:47,210 --> 00:30:43,700
alleged um

722
00:30:49,730 --> 00:30:47,220
the first one did those in the early 80s

723
00:30:51,649 --> 00:30:49,740
and then the other one was like in 92

724
00:30:54,110 --> 00:30:51,659
93.

725
00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:54,120
um and George Knapp apparently

726
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:57,299
um he tells his story as well that told

727
00:31:02,210 --> 00:31:00,240
him hey George I've got this brothel on

728
00:31:03,049 --> 00:31:02,220
your street no less

729
00:31:05,630 --> 00:31:03,059
um

730
00:31:07,610 --> 00:31:05,640
and then nap is like uh you have to stop

731
00:31:09,230 --> 00:31:07,620
this immediately because um

732
00:31:11,149 --> 00:31:09,240
there are people who want you to crash

733
00:31:13,370 --> 00:31:11,159
and burn and they're going to use this

734
00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:13,380
as like evidence against you so that

735
00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:15,720
then they go they go to the police

736
00:31:21,649 --> 00:31:18,600
um to you know basically come clean

737
00:31:24,769 --> 00:31:21,659
the police arrest Bob for pandering and

738
00:31:26,830 --> 00:31:24,779
then um he goes to court he's uh he

739
00:31:29,510 --> 00:31:26,840
pleads guilty to pandering

740
00:31:32,210 --> 00:31:29,520
although he says sometimes that he was

741
00:31:34,750 --> 00:31:32,220
just um installing computer equipment in

742
00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:34,760
the brothel like security equipment

743
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:37,620
but in fact um

744
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:39,840
one of the police affidavits or court

745
00:31:45,409 --> 00:31:42,480
documents um says that the Madame of the

746
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:45,419
brothel actually

747
00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:49,440
um hadlazar as like a co-investor so he

748
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:51,419
was much more involved than just like

749
00:31:56,029 --> 00:31:54,000
installing computer equipment right but

750
00:31:59,630 --> 00:31:56,039
anyway like again this kind of shows a

751
00:32:04,070 --> 00:31:59,640
psychological predisposition to

752
00:32:05,690 --> 00:32:04,080
um that sort of CD business and um

753
00:32:07,730 --> 00:32:05,700
you know the gov I don't see the

754
00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:07,740
government hiring somebody

755
00:32:12,889 --> 00:32:09,720
um to a program like to the most

756
00:32:13,549 --> 00:32:12,899
important program in U.S history

757
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:13,559
um

758
00:32:18,769 --> 00:32:15,840
you know namely cracking anti-gravity

759
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,779
technology from another planet

760
00:32:24,409 --> 00:32:21,120
um giving somebody like Lazada keys to

761
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:24,419
that sure look as he pointed out he uh

762
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:28,320
easily compromised yes and also lies

763
00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:30,480
about his um background

764
00:32:34,130 --> 00:32:32,460
so again it shows that he's the type of

765
00:32:36,649 --> 00:32:34,140
person who would make up a story about

766
00:32:38,690 --> 00:32:36,659
working on flying sources so then we're

767
00:32:40,370 --> 00:32:38,700
just left with what's the actual

768
00:32:42,649 --> 00:32:40,380
evidence for his claims and there's

769
00:32:45,769 --> 00:32:42,659
really no evidence right

770
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:45,779
it's just his his his word

771
00:32:51,049 --> 00:32:48,000
right because it sounds like he he's

772
00:32:53,930 --> 00:32:51,059
sort of um like took from a range of

773
00:32:55,549 --> 00:32:53,940
nice niche sub subjects that were

774
00:32:59,049 --> 00:32:55,559
occurring kind of around when he was

775
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:59,059
working uh at Area 51 as uh you know a

776
00:33:02,990 --> 00:33:01,440
technician of some kind installing

777
00:33:04,250 --> 00:33:03,000
equipment and stuff

778
00:33:05,769 --> 00:33:04,260
um not a physicist like he was saying

779
00:33:08,450 --> 00:33:05,779
and then

780
00:33:10,610 --> 00:33:08,460
he probably never worked at Area 51 but

781
00:33:12,529 --> 00:33:10,620
okay thank you yes okay

782
00:33:16,430 --> 00:33:12,539
um but then so there's like these

783
00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:16,440
elements like 115 Element 115 uh like it

784
00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:18,720
was this like it was discovered around

785
00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:19,980
that time right like I remember

786
00:33:24,590 --> 00:33:22,200
something about like it had been in like

787
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,600
a published in a paper like kind of

788
00:33:27,789 --> 00:33:26,640
close to when he was uh talking about it

789
00:33:31,130 --> 00:33:27,799
so anyway

790
00:33:34,009 --> 00:33:31,140
American article talked about it in the

791
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:34,019
weeks up to his uh

792
00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:35,880
going public

793
00:33:39,529 --> 00:33:38,340
right but in fact Element 115 was being

794
00:33:42,110 --> 00:33:39,539
talked about in the scientific

795
00:33:45,529 --> 00:33:42,120
literature since at least the early

796
00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:45,539
1970s if not earlier

797
00:33:49,549 --> 00:33:47,700
it's been synthesized since then right

798
00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:49,559
it has been but that's that had nothing

799
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:52,440
to do with Lazar um right like the

800
00:33:57,649 --> 00:33:54,240
properties don't match up it was an

801
00:34:00,769 --> 00:33:57,659
unstable Isis Lazar says that the um

802
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:00,779
alien spaceship used a stable isotope of

803
00:34:05,570 --> 00:34:03,840
element 115 at the time he never

804
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:05,580
mentioned the um

805
00:34:10,970 --> 00:34:07,919
the mass number so like

806
00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:10,980
uh the number of the neutrons plus

807
00:34:16,369 --> 00:34:13,740
protons okay

808
00:34:19,070 --> 00:34:16,379
it is present actually the mass number

809
00:34:21,169 --> 00:34:19,080
is present on merchandise on his

810
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:21,179
company's website but we don't know

811
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:23,040
where he got the idea for that I think

812
00:34:28,010 --> 00:34:26,639
299 is the mass number that he touts but

813
00:34:31,790 --> 00:34:28,020
he never mentioned that back in the day

814
00:34:34,010 --> 00:34:31,800
interesting um so I mean Element 115 it

815
00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:34,020
doesn't at all prove is the fact that it

816
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:35,820
was synthesized we would expect it to be

817
00:34:40,490 --> 00:34:38,820
synthesized because that was already

818
00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:40,500
stuff that was being done at the time

819
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:43,560
like you know elements are synthesized

820
00:34:47,089 --> 00:34:45,359
sometimes only for a few milliseconds

821
00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:47,099
but

822
00:34:50,030 --> 00:34:48,060
um

823
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,040
he says that again it has special

824
00:34:53,570 --> 00:34:52,560
gravitational properties

825
00:34:55,730 --> 00:34:53,580
um

826
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,740
no I mean it's just an element it

827
00:34:58,670 --> 00:34:57,119
doesn't have any magical properties

828
00:35:00,650 --> 00:34:58,680
right

829
00:35:01,910 --> 00:35:00,660
um and we don't find it on Earth we

830
00:35:04,730 --> 00:35:01,920
don't find it in the solar system

831
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:04,740
anywhere we've looked and it is

832
00:35:08,690 --> 00:35:06,240
conceivable that out there in the

833
00:35:11,450 --> 00:35:08,700
universe there is a large amount of

834
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:11,460
element 115 and some more stable form

835
00:35:16,849 --> 00:35:14,400
but um he doesn't know he doesn't

836
00:35:18,650 --> 00:35:16,859
remember what the spectrograph look like

837
00:35:21,650 --> 00:35:18,660
even though he supposedly was the one

838
00:35:22,990 --> 00:35:21,660
who identified it as four

839
00:35:32,089 --> 00:35:23,000
um

840
00:35:35,569 --> 00:35:32,099
an early interview I think in 1990 with

841
00:35:38,210 --> 00:35:35,579
Michael lindelman Liza says that um

842
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:38,220
he thinks that the cash Landrum

843
00:35:44,329 --> 00:35:42,480
uh spaceship or craft used a plutonium

844
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:44,339
instead of 115 but that it was

845
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:47,760
replicating the gravitational properties

846
00:35:53,390 --> 00:35:50,640
of the sport model or the spaceships

847
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:53,400
that they had at S4 this is before they

848
00:35:58,670 --> 00:35:56,640
supposedly had him come in to determine

849
00:36:01,130 --> 00:35:58,680
what the element was

850
00:36:02,750 --> 00:36:01,140
so why would they need him to come in if

851
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:02,760
they were already reverse engineering at

852
00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:06,000
like back in the late 1970s or whenever

853
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:07,859
it occurred 1980 I think the cash

854
00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:10,560
flandrum was uh yeah I believe it's

855
00:36:16,670 --> 00:36:13,560
weird a lot of lazar's like statements

856
00:36:19,790 --> 00:36:16,680
and uh sort of uh claims like he seems

857
00:36:23,450 --> 00:36:19,800
to get very specific about things in a

858
00:36:25,250 --> 00:36:23,460
way that like can be verified to some

859
00:36:27,950 --> 00:36:25,260
extent and then like there's a

860
00:36:30,770 --> 00:36:27,960
consistent attempt to do so and it just

861
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:30,780
sort of like recedes progressively as

862
00:36:34,310 --> 00:36:33,000
you try to snap like lock something down

863
00:36:50,089 --> 00:36:34,320
like

864
00:36:51,050 --> 00:36:50,099
known in the UFO sort of community

865
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,060
um

866
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:53,520
do you have any insight on like like

867
00:36:56,690 --> 00:36:54,720
there are been like there are more

868
00:36:59,690 --> 00:36:56,700
compelling narratives out there what's

869
00:37:03,609 --> 00:36:59,700
sort of the central core reason why

870
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:07,310
it kind of us brings it all together

871
00:37:11,870 --> 00:37:09,839
um his story is um it was already

872
00:37:14,569 --> 00:37:11,880
converging before he

873
00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:14,579
told it because you had um things like

874
00:37:20,089 --> 00:37:18,000
the 1988 UFO cover-up live TV special

875
00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:20,099
where many people were

876
00:37:25,849 --> 00:37:24,000
on the show many UFO personalities were

877
00:37:28,250 --> 00:37:25,859
telling tropes and stories that Lazar

878
00:37:30,650 --> 00:37:28,260
would later reprise

879
00:37:32,030 --> 00:37:30,660
um what is this event that's quite

880
00:37:35,390 --> 00:37:32,040
interesting I've never heard of this you

881
00:37:40,849 --> 00:37:35,400
can find it on YouTube excellent

882
00:37:50,930 --> 00:37:41,710
um

883
00:37:52,849 --> 00:37:50,940
yeah they're honored as well yep it's

884
00:37:54,170 --> 00:37:52,859
also got a video from the Hudson Valley

885
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:54,180
sightings on their Campbell you should

886
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:55,440
really watch it

887
00:37:58,970 --> 00:37:56,880
what's it called here I'll just pull it

888
00:38:00,370 --> 00:37:58,980
up quickly right now yeah UFO cover up

889
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:00,380
live

890
00:38:04,730 --> 00:38:02,880
oh they picked a good name didn't they

891
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:04,740
didn't Dodie have something to do with

892
00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:05,520
this

893
00:38:09,790 --> 00:38:08,280
yeah he was posing as he was in silly

894
00:38:12,609 --> 00:38:09,800
wet yeah

895
00:38:15,410 --> 00:38:12,619
yeah one of the Aviary

896
00:38:17,569 --> 00:38:15,420
although he wasn't actually Falcon

897
00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:17,579
um in the original Aviary but he was

898
00:38:23,930 --> 00:38:21,420
anyway in the show he was yeah

899
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:23,940
um Area 51 by name some people think

900
00:38:28,250 --> 00:38:25,680
that Lazar was the first person to ever

901
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,260
mention the name Area 51 in fact

902
00:38:31,310 --> 00:38:30,480
mentions of it go back

903
00:38:34,609 --> 00:38:31,320
um

904
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,619
to at least 1979 in the popular media oh

905
00:38:38,990 --> 00:38:36,960
wow but um again it's in the documentary

906
00:38:40,609 --> 00:38:39,000
it's in that TV show

907
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:40,619
okay I was trying to find a clip of the

908
00:38:44,810 --> 00:38:42,240
show itself I'm struggling to find an

909
00:38:47,329 --> 00:38:44,820
action you'll find them I actually made

910
00:38:50,930 --> 00:38:47,339
a list of similarities between

911
00:38:53,870 --> 00:38:50,940
um that show and the Lazar claims on my

912
00:38:57,290 --> 00:38:53,880
website I don't know pull that up if you

913
00:38:59,329 --> 00:38:57,300
go to UFO ufology is corrupt.com yeah

914
00:39:01,130 --> 00:38:59,339
and then click on the blog

915
00:39:04,370 --> 00:39:01,140
section

916
00:39:07,550 --> 00:39:04,380
I'll just pull it up right now

917
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:07,560
yeah everybody uh listening watching

918
00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:10,560
um yeah Louise done this amazing

919
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:13,020
yes

920
00:39:18,890 --> 00:39:16,560
and there he is all right and uh it's is

921
00:39:22,010 --> 00:39:18,900
it on the main page just keep going down

922
00:39:26,990 --> 00:39:24,650
I've actually got a couple of Lazar um

923
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:27,000
articles including one that I did with

924
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:29,760
Amy Collins uh that one about Bill

925
00:39:34,849 --> 00:39:33,359
Cooper and John Leo and the S4 badge we

926
00:39:37,130 --> 00:39:34,859
could talk more about that in a sec if

927
00:39:39,410 --> 00:39:37,140
you want but um if you go yeah that one

928
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:39,420
there ah okay here we go

929
00:39:45,230 --> 00:39:41,520
it also links to a video that I have on

930
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:49,910
um if you punch in um UFO cover-up

931
00:39:57,710 --> 00:39:51,050
yeah

932
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:57,720
time stamps um excellent

933
00:40:03,050 --> 00:40:01,440
okay that's from 1980 but just um keep

934
00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:03,060
scrolling down

935
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:05,760
to 1988 okay

936
00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:08,940
damn you are so extensive wow yeah this

937
00:40:12,050 --> 00:40:10,440
is excellent research everybody should

938
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:12,060
check this out absolutely okay here we

939
00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:14,640
go I hope those still work sometimes our

940
00:40:18,829 --> 00:40:17,400
videos are dropped from YouTube but um

941
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:18,839
is there one that you recall that's

942
00:40:24,170 --> 00:40:21,119
specifically interesting oh there's the

943
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:24,180
Falcon one um oh yes Falcon okay oh then

944
00:40:29,450 --> 00:40:26,880
this is Dodie and Dodie is uh let's uh

945
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:29,460
just remind everybody he was the U.S Air

946
00:40:34,190 --> 00:40:31,680
Force intelligence officer who

947
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:34,200
was involved in uh and what is the name

948
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:42,230
you're thinking a mirageman yes thank

949
00:40:47,870 --> 00:40:44,640
you yeah he was a mirage man too yes

950
00:40:53,089 --> 00:40:51,950
um a bunch of things in that TV special

951
00:40:57,710 --> 00:40:53,099
um okay let me just share that

952
00:41:01,250 --> 00:40:59,390
I believe that's in public domain now

953
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:01,260
right

954
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:03,839
yeah it should be

955
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:08,880
all over the place hopefully yeah there

956
00:41:18,890 --> 00:41:11,520
we go okay you guys can hear that

957
00:41:24,050 --> 00:41:21,890
play their primary purpose was to keep

958
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:24,060
track of the information coming in on

959
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:27,119
UFOs and to analyze the information both

960
00:41:32,750 --> 00:41:30,480
uh scientifically and in a way that

961
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:32,760
would Advance our technology there are

962
00:41:38,750 --> 00:41:35,599
government officials and Collective

963
00:41:43,390 --> 00:41:38,760
officials that are automatically brief

964
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:43,400
and existence of view mj-12 activities

965
00:41:50,990 --> 00:41:47,280
okay wow creepy you can tell it's him eh

966
00:41:56,930 --> 00:41:53,569
that's funny okay well that's amazing

967
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:56,940
though yes Lazar did talk about mj-12 in

968
00:42:02,870 --> 00:41:59,760
in the extent that he says um that is

969
00:42:04,130 --> 00:42:02,880
security ID badge at S4 said match on it

970
00:42:07,130 --> 00:42:04,140
maj

971
00:42:08,750 --> 00:42:07,140
and all for his um supposed W2 tax form

972
00:42:11,630 --> 00:42:08,760
had

973
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:11,640
um Maj on it as well

974
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:15,359
I've seen A Renewed interest in the

975
00:42:19,849 --> 00:42:18,480
mj-12 documents as well lately and I

976
00:42:21,290 --> 00:42:19,859
think that's really interesting I didn't

977
00:42:23,329 --> 00:42:21,300
think that there was really any more

978
00:42:26,510 --> 00:42:23,339
room for that after

979
00:42:28,310 --> 00:42:26,520
um how was it class who found the uh the

980
00:42:30,650 --> 00:42:28,320
cut and pasted signatures on those

981
00:42:33,310 --> 00:42:30,660
documents right right

982
00:42:37,130 --> 00:42:33,320
but it keeps rearing its ugly head yeah

983
00:42:39,470 --> 00:42:37,140
that document the mj-12 it's

984
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:39,480
um a pretty Infamous one right is that's

985
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:41,520
the origin if I recall correctly of the

986
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:44,160
whole uh belief in uh the Eisen

987
00:42:48,710 --> 00:42:47,040
President Eisenhower was like inspiring

988
00:42:50,750 --> 00:42:48,720
with aliens and stuff

989
00:42:53,569 --> 00:42:50,760
um yeah and it's been quite uh

990
00:42:55,730 --> 00:42:53,579
thoroughly uh debunked as you pointed

991
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:55,740
out nick uh a very significant document

992
00:42:59,690 --> 00:42:57,599
though yeah

993
00:43:02,210 --> 00:42:59,700
within the culture yeah

994
00:43:03,710 --> 00:43:02,220
it's also in the latest installation of

995
00:43:06,530 --> 00:43:03,720
American Horror Story

996
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:06,540
interesting really I haven't watched it

997
00:43:11,870 --> 00:43:09,359
in a long time you seem like um making a

998
00:43:14,210 --> 00:43:11,880
deal with the aliens and stuff like that

999
00:43:16,849 --> 00:43:14,220
the Roswell crash

1000
00:43:18,410 --> 00:43:16,859
it's where he uh he agreed to like so

1001
00:43:19,970 --> 00:43:18,420
many number of American citizens are

1002
00:43:22,849 --> 00:43:19,980
allowed to be abducted

1003
00:43:26,170 --> 00:43:22,859
right for their nefarious experiments

1004
00:43:33,470 --> 00:43:26,180
it's a cool plot like

1005
00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:36,290
that that was you know the Dulce base

1006
00:43:40,190 --> 00:43:38,760
um it was housing like a secret alien

1007
00:43:42,829 --> 00:43:40,200
research facility where American

1008
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,839
citizens were being kidnapped and

1009
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:44,400
um experimented on and that the

1010
00:43:47,930 --> 00:43:47,040
government knew about this

1011
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:47,940
um

1012
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:50,880
and uh I think Cooper believed that for

1013
00:43:54,410 --> 00:43:52,560
a while but I think he dropped out of

1014
00:43:57,530 --> 00:43:54,420
that belief

1015
00:43:58,910 --> 00:43:57,540
um John Leah believed it

1016
00:44:01,130 --> 00:43:58,920
um

1017
00:44:03,950 --> 00:44:01,140
yeah John Lear is such an interesting

1018
00:44:05,930 --> 00:44:03,960
person but uh

1019
00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:05,940
yeah it might not have been a Lazar

1020
00:44:11,450 --> 00:44:09,000
without John Leo possibly

1021
00:44:14,030 --> 00:44:11,460
and uh I'm not super familiar with uh

1022
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:14,040
John Lear you said he was like a radio

1023
00:44:18,890 --> 00:44:17,040
host at the time kind of on the Liberian

1024
00:44:21,470 --> 00:44:18,900
side of things is that uh kind of

1025
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:21,480
roughly correct he was a very proficient

1026
00:44:26,690 --> 00:44:23,520
pilot he's doing like dozens of

1027
00:44:28,910 --> 00:44:26,700
different airframes he um

1028
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:28,920
worked at the Nevada Test Site during

1029
00:44:31,490 --> 00:44:30,720
the early 80s

1030
00:44:35,569 --> 00:44:31,500
um

1031
00:44:37,790 --> 00:44:35,579
back to my website there's actually yeah

1032
00:44:40,430 --> 00:44:37,800
an article there about him

1033
00:44:43,069 --> 00:44:40,440
you see a photo of him um from the early

1034
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:43,079
80s next to one of the um

1035
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:45,119
aircraft that he flew over the site to

1036
00:44:49,490 --> 00:44:48,240
collect air samples because they were um

1037
00:44:51,290 --> 00:44:49,500
you know they were testing nuclear

1038
00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:51,300
weapons there underground but they were

1039
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:53,220
concerned that some of the

1040
00:44:57,829 --> 00:44:55,200
radioactive material was leaking out

1041
00:44:59,450 --> 00:44:57,839
into the atmosphere so they will do some

1042
00:45:01,250 --> 00:44:59,460
oh it's not in that one it's in the

1043
00:45:03,690 --> 00:45:01,260
other Lazar

1044
00:45:06,589 --> 00:45:03,700
um oh yeah let's go back up to blog

1045
00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:06,599
[Music]

1046
00:45:12,170 --> 00:45:08,960
okay here we go

1047
00:45:15,170 --> 00:45:12,180
yes sorry yeah got uh confused there for

1048
00:45:17,630 --> 00:45:15,180
a second all right and Lear uh that is

1049
00:45:19,609 --> 00:45:17,640
that a relation to the airplane company

1050
00:45:21,950 --> 00:45:19,619
yeah his father his father oh my

1051
00:45:24,349 --> 00:45:21,960
goodness okay so he wasn't yeah I was

1052
00:45:26,750 --> 00:45:24,359
totally off on uh so so he he was like

1053
00:45:29,870 --> 00:45:26,760
independently wealthy and interested in

1054
00:45:34,250 --> 00:45:32,210
okay that's an interesting element of

1055
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:34,260
this too actually the the sort of like

1056
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:37,440
the rich kid interest in UFOs like we

1057
00:45:41,569 --> 00:45:39,839
have like uh you know Chris Mellon of

1058
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:41,579
the melon family

1059
00:45:48,349 --> 00:45:45,599
um gosh who else is there um well Leslie

1060
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:48,359
Keane right or uh Kane if that's how

1061
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:49,920
you're supposed to say it apparently

1062
00:45:55,730 --> 00:45:51,839
um yeah

1063
00:45:58,190 --> 00:45:56,990
I don't know how he grew up though I

1064
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,200
guess he grew up kind of middle class

1065
00:46:02,450 --> 00:46:00,480
right

1066
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:02,460
yeah I don't know actually yeah I only

1067
00:46:07,490 --> 00:46:03,839
know a few of the songs that have grown

1068
00:46:10,970 --> 00:46:07,500
up with them obviously but um okay so uh

1069
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:10,980
here we go John Lear and Bill Cooper

1070
00:46:14,450 --> 00:46:12,960
is there a section uh specifically you

1071
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:14,460
were looking for uh Louise or should I

1072
00:46:20,450 --> 00:46:16,800
scroll down and you can kind of uh yeah

1073
00:46:21,890 --> 00:46:20,460
just scroll down yeah sure we'll hit it

1074
00:46:24,170 --> 00:46:21,900
eventually

1075
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:24,180
um it's just my correspondence with um

1076
00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:26,640
Amy and she um

1077
00:46:32,329 --> 00:46:29,880
she gave me that um

1078
00:46:34,670 --> 00:46:32,339
uh that graphic up there that's an ID

1079
00:46:37,849 --> 00:46:34,680
badge by the way at the Nevada test site

1080
00:46:40,390 --> 00:46:37,859
that they were using and uh lazar's

1081
00:46:43,970 --> 00:46:40,400
um ID badge that he sort of

1082
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:43,980
reconstructed from memory as he says

1083
00:46:49,730 --> 00:46:47,520
um is not period accurate the style the

1084
00:46:51,550 --> 00:46:49,740
um card doesn't match when he supposedly

1085
00:46:54,589 --> 00:46:51,560
worked that S4

1086
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:54,599
does it does it look similar to a more

1087
00:46:57,890 --> 00:46:55,920
recent one though

1088
00:47:00,109 --> 00:46:57,900
it looks more similar to the older ones

1089
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,119
but then in the late 80s they updated

1090
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:02,160
them and that's when Lazar supposedly

1091
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:04,560
worked there but it doesn't match up I

1092
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:09,490
uh your language

1093
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:12,720
Lazar stands exposed as a compulsive

1094
00:47:17,870 --> 00:47:16,800
plagiarist of narrative elements nice

1095
00:47:21,950 --> 00:47:17,880
yeah

1096
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:21,960
must have scrolled over it because uh

1097
00:47:27,530 --> 00:47:24,240
okay oh here we go yeah that's

1098
00:47:31,690 --> 00:47:29,150
found the backstory of the security

1099
00:47:34,010 --> 00:47:31,700
badge

1100
00:47:36,530 --> 00:47:34,020
Amy's stepfather actually worked at the

1101
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:36,540
Nevada Test Site um

1102
00:47:40,670 --> 00:47:38,640
and he knew a lot about

1103
00:47:43,309 --> 00:47:40,680
um obviously the goings on there

1104
00:47:44,750 --> 00:47:43,319
and um so does Amy because she's a does

1105
00:47:45,829 --> 00:47:44,760
a lot of research into this kind of

1106
00:47:47,450 --> 00:47:45,839
stuff

1107
00:47:49,370 --> 00:47:47,460
right and so you've done a fair bit of

1108
00:47:50,930 --> 00:47:49,380
digging like yourself Louise I just want

1109
00:47:52,550 --> 00:47:50,940
to emphasize that like you've been

1110
00:47:55,190 --> 00:47:52,560
communicating with these individuals

1111
00:47:57,410 --> 00:47:55,200
directly getting the stories like from

1112
00:47:59,870 --> 00:47:57,420
people who sort of are

1113
00:48:02,450 --> 00:47:59,880
attached at least tangentially to the

1114
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:02,460
actual situation on the ground

1115
00:48:06,829 --> 00:48:05,040
it's quite interesting yeah

1116
00:48:09,950 --> 00:48:06,839
now there's a there's another similar

1117
00:48:12,530 --> 00:48:09,960
claim from uh Lazar about hand scanners

1118
00:48:15,410 --> 00:48:12,540
too right that's kind of there the

1119
00:48:16,250 --> 00:48:15,420
identum at hand scanner yeah which is

1120
00:48:19,490 --> 00:48:16,260
actually

1121
00:48:20,930 --> 00:48:19,500
um seen in the 2000 sorry uh the movie

1122
00:48:24,109 --> 00:48:20,940
um Close Encounters of the Third Kind

1123
00:48:26,809 --> 00:48:24,119
which came out in 1977 I think

1124
00:48:29,210 --> 00:48:26,819
you see one of those there but the

1125
00:48:31,550 --> 00:48:29,220
identament was actually seen in an

1126
00:48:34,730 --> 00:48:31,560
Electronics catalogs since like the late

1127
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:34,740
60s interesting it was also used at the

1128
00:48:38,569 --> 00:48:36,960
Tonopah test range during some of the

1129
00:48:42,410 --> 00:48:38,579
developments of the um

1130
00:48:45,650 --> 00:48:42,420
the F-117 Stealth aircraft and

1131
00:48:47,089 --> 00:48:45,660
um possibly Jim tagliani told uh Lazar

1132
00:48:48,109 --> 00:48:47,099
about that so that could have been the

1133
00:48:50,030 --> 00:48:48,119
inspiration

1134
00:48:51,890 --> 00:48:50,040
for saying that they they will use it as

1135
00:48:53,930 --> 00:48:51,900
for

1136
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,940
right so so this is like you're just

1137
00:48:58,849 --> 00:48:56,640
basically yeah in this article you've uh

1138
00:49:00,430 --> 00:48:58,859
written a blog post going through sort

1139
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:00,440
of the individual

1140
00:49:06,530 --> 00:49:03,839
items the claims and then just testing

1141
00:49:09,890 --> 00:49:06,540
them against information that can be

1142
00:49:12,290 --> 00:49:09,900
accessed and um so it doesn't come out

1143
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:12,300
well at all uh for for Bob and

1144
00:49:17,270 --> 00:49:15,359
unfortunately for uh his supporters

1145
00:49:19,370 --> 00:49:17,280
you can always make a more elaborate

1146
00:49:20,450 --> 00:49:19,380
story uh that you know they covered this

1147
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:20,460
up or

1148
00:49:24,410 --> 00:49:22,800
whatever but like it just becomes too

1149
00:49:25,970 --> 00:49:24,420
convoluted

1150
00:49:28,970 --> 00:49:25,980
and um

1151
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:28,980
obviously not very parsimonious well and

1152
00:49:32,829 --> 00:49:30,420
just think it's like this is like one

1153
00:49:36,589 --> 00:49:32,839
Claim about a badge yeah and it's like

1154
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:36,599
item after item can be identified as

1155
00:49:42,890 --> 00:49:39,599
problematic like it's like why is he so

1156
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:42,900
bad at this why is he making such

1157
00:49:47,150 --> 00:49:45,119
specific I guess people are like

1158
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:47,160
prompting him for specifics like what's

1159
00:49:52,550 --> 00:49:50,480
what's going on here yeah

1160
00:49:54,349 --> 00:49:52,560
give these little um sort of

1161
00:49:55,130 --> 00:49:54,359
confirmations but then when you look at

1162
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:55,140
them

1163
00:49:59,930 --> 00:49:57,359
they don't add up and then there's also

1164
00:50:01,069 --> 00:49:59,940
the vague claims that he makes where he

1165
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:01,079
knows that a lot of people are not

1166
00:50:05,809 --> 00:50:03,119
scientifically

1167
00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:05,819
um you know minded or literate and he

1168
00:50:10,430 --> 00:50:07,440
can just basically get away with stuff

1169
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:10,440
that sounds sort of sciency she does

1170
00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:13,260
that a lot as well it was so long ago

1171
00:50:16,370 --> 00:50:15,060
that he can't remember or that he can't

1172
00:50:18,410 --> 00:50:16,380
talk about it because he doesn't want to

1173
00:50:23,150 --> 00:50:18,420
get people in trouble so there's always

1174
00:50:27,950 --> 00:50:25,430
yeah it's a lot like the um the appeals

1175
00:50:30,829 --> 00:50:27,960
to quantum physics now or even appeals

1176
00:50:33,650 --> 00:50:30,839
to Consciousness yeah

1177
00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:33,660
now he he does seem to be an Unsinkable

1178
00:50:37,609 --> 00:50:35,040
rubber ducky do you think that is

1179
00:50:40,309 --> 00:50:37,619
partially because uh more contemporary

1180
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:40,319
figures are still kind of backing them

1181
00:50:45,290 --> 00:50:43,440
up like I think George Knapp still uh

1182
00:50:46,910 --> 00:50:45,300
contends that he's telling the truth

1183
00:50:49,790 --> 00:50:46,920
right

1184
00:50:52,309 --> 00:50:49,800
yeah George Knapp is um basically I

1185
00:50:54,589 --> 00:50:52,319
think dug himself into a hole or his um

1186
00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:54,599
sunken his costs into the Lazar story

1187
00:50:59,809 --> 00:50:56,760
he's the one who broke the LaSalle story

1188
00:51:01,609 --> 00:50:59,819
uh to the public and he obviously

1189
00:51:04,190 --> 00:51:01,619
doesn't want to appear like he was made

1190
00:51:07,010 --> 00:51:04,200
a fool of by Lazar that he was

1191
00:51:10,430 --> 00:51:07,020
so he has to almost for his reputation I

1192
00:51:12,130 --> 00:51:10,440
guess has to sort of keep pushing it

1193
00:51:16,430 --> 00:51:12,140
um

1194
00:51:18,109 --> 00:51:16,440
I mean that's that's so kind of

1195
00:51:21,010 --> 00:51:18,119
transparent and out in the open though

1196
00:51:23,930 --> 00:51:21,020
like so you can see that he's doing that

1197
00:51:25,849 --> 00:51:23,940
that seems like but I mean I think with

1198
00:51:27,530 --> 00:51:25,859
this disclosure right now going on

1199
00:51:31,250 --> 00:51:27,540
so-called disclosure and these um

1200
00:51:34,010 --> 00:51:31,260
hearings it's more like a kind of um

1201
00:51:35,690 --> 00:51:34,020
a buffer there people can can just about

1202
00:51:36,770 --> 00:51:35,700
believe that Lazar is telling the truth

1203
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:36,780
because

1204
00:51:40,730 --> 00:51:38,880
if the government is saying that aliens

1205
00:51:43,010 --> 00:51:40,740
are real although they're not but that's

1206
00:51:44,690 --> 00:51:43,020
the claim that's often made then it's

1207
00:51:47,210 --> 00:51:44,700
not that far out to believe that maybe

1208
00:51:50,030 --> 00:51:47,220
they're also hiding alien technology

1209
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:50,040
sure so it's sort of um in the

1210
00:51:54,109 --> 00:51:51,839
background is sort of conducive to

1211
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:54,119
believing Lazar in some ways so people

1212
00:51:59,150 --> 00:51:56,880
find that easier

1213
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:59,160
it's interesting this whole kind of plot

1214
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:00,960
line which was kind of picked up by the

1215
00:52:04,730 --> 00:52:03,119
Exiles and stuff the UFOs and the

1216
00:52:06,670 --> 00:52:04,740
government knowing about it and hiding

1217
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:06,680
it was actually written by Ray Palmer in

1218
00:52:13,069 --> 00:52:11,040
1946. yeah and uh life just life

1219
00:52:14,710 --> 00:52:13,079
including extraterrestrial seems to

1220
00:52:17,870 --> 00:52:14,720
imitate art

1221
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:17,880
very surprising you wouldn't think it

1222
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:18,960
would

1223
00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:21,660
now uh so Bob Lazar

1224
00:52:26,390 --> 00:52:23,520
um like you were uh mentioning Louise

1225
00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:26,400
like he got into some difficulties right

1226
00:52:29,930 --> 00:52:28,260
like if I remember correctly like he

1227
00:52:32,030 --> 00:52:29,940
tried to start his own

1228
00:52:34,430 --> 00:52:32,040
um Festival in the desert that didn't

1229
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:34,440
really pan out he was

1230
00:52:39,410 --> 00:52:37,680
um sort of trying to like make a name

1231
00:52:42,109 --> 00:52:39,420
for himself in several respects like

1232
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:42,119
building a car that ran on what was it

1233
00:52:46,190 --> 00:52:43,440
hydrogen or something kind of

1234
00:52:49,309 --> 00:52:46,200
interesting like he was like quite

1235
00:52:51,950 --> 00:52:49,319
competent uh with uh you know making

1236
00:52:54,530 --> 00:52:51,960
stuff uh obviously not consistent with

1237
00:52:56,030 --> 00:52:54,540
building a flying saucer but um you know

1238
00:53:03,829 --> 00:52:56,040
so

1239
00:53:05,690 --> 00:53:03,839
legal troubles with uh you know like

1240
00:53:08,270 --> 00:53:05,700
being arrested on those uh criminal

1241
00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:08,280
charges you mentioned and stuff and uh I

1242
00:53:12,650 --> 00:53:09,720
get the intensity kind of went away for

1243
00:53:14,510 --> 00:53:12,660
a bit and then people sort of grabbed on

1244
00:53:17,569 --> 00:53:14,520
to his story again and we have this

1245
00:53:21,170 --> 00:53:17,579
filmmaker now uh Jeremy Corbell uh

1246
00:53:25,010 --> 00:53:21,180
documentarian very interested in UFOs

1247
00:53:26,450 --> 00:53:25,020
believes uh sort of the Lazar uh story

1248
00:53:28,849 --> 00:53:26,460
and he

1249
00:53:30,829 --> 00:53:28,859
got Lazar out there eh like for a whole

1250
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:30,839
new generation of people who haven't

1251
00:53:34,849 --> 00:53:33,119
been through the line by line of all

1252
00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:34,859
these issues and they just see him on

1253
00:53:41,210 --> 00:53:38,400
Rogan oops

1254
00:53:43,490 --> 00:53:41,220
and uh like so the cycle kind of

1255
00:53:45,950 --> 00:53:43,500
continues and uh

1256
00:53:47,089 --> 00:53:45,960
obviously you're fighting it but um is

1257
00:53:51,470 --> 00:53:47,099
there

1258
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:51,480
cycle could be broken at some point like

1259
00:53:55,370 --> 00:53:53,520
uh based on your knowledge actually Nick

1260
00:53:57,710 --> 00:53:55,380
too with your experience of the UFO

1261
00:54:00,589 --> 00:53:57,720
subject to history in general like um

1262
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:00,599
when like with it the original in the

1263
00:54:06,290 --> 00:54:02,640
50s the people like a damskin stuff they

1264
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:06,300
did eventually sort of uh go away with

1265
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:08,640
the sort of exposure repeatedly to sort

1266
00:54:13,490 --> 00:54:11,520
of like evidence of fraud um like like

1267
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:13,500
Luis said Billy Myers still kicking

1268
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:15,599
around Lazar keeps popping back up all

1269
00:54:19,309 --> 00:54:16,800
these things

1270
00:54:21,950 --> 00:54:19,319
well I mean daily we see all the UFO

1271
00:54:23,870 --> 00:54:21,960
video hoaxes that we saw months ago that

1272
00:54:26,329 --> 00:54:23,880
are being passed around by the newer

1273
00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:26,339
people and stuff right so like like I

1274
00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:28,079
called Lazar all these things all these

1275
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:30,480
Unsinkable rubber duckies like I guess

1276
00:54:35,809 --> 00:54:32,880
the um kind of the Mystique and the

1277
00:54:37,730 --> 00:54:35,819
narrative is a better seller than

1278
00:54:40,370 --> 00:54:37,740
the the reality of these things so it's

1279
00:54:43,010 --> 00:54:40,380
more popular I suppose

1280
00:54:45,470 --> 00:54:43,020
there's also the ecological problems

1281
00:54:46,870 --> 00:54:45,480
we're facing um you know the desire for

1282
00:54:50,569 --> 00:54:46,880
free energy

1283
00:54:52,730 --> 00:54:50,579
the the alien reactor or the engine is

1284
00:54:55,370 --> 00:54:52,740
touted as like a

1285
00:54:57,170 --> 00:54:55,380
the cure for all of our basically

1286
00:54:59,390 --> 00:54:57,180
societal problems because anyway we're

1287
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:59,400
not going to fight over you know

1288
00:55:02,210 --> 00:55:01,200
oil in the Middle East or stuff like

1289
00:55:02,750 --> 00:55:02,220
that

1290
00:55:05,210 --> 00:55:02,760
um

1291
00:55:07,089 --> 00:55:05,220
and there's also a religious aspect uh

1292
00:55:10,130 --> 00:55:07,099
which obviously goes back to the um

1293
00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:10,140
contactees we've always been here in

1294
00:55:14,809 --> 00:55:12,240
ufology where people believe that the

1295
00:55:17,049 --> 00:55:14,819
aliens are basically the Salvation yeah

1296
00:55:20,569 --> 00:55:17,059
instead of God or Jesus you have the

1297
00:55:21,770 --> 00:55:20,579
extraterrestrials coming down from space

1298
00:55:23,870 --> 00:55:21,780
um promising

1299
00:55:26,690 --> 00:55:23,880
you know the next stage of human

1300
00:55:28,730 --> 00:55:26,700
evolution basically

1301
00:55:31,309 --> 00:55:28,740
they always seem to have suggestions to

1302
00:55:32,930 --> 00:55:31,319
our problems that are uh just kind of

1303
00:55:35,870 --> 00:55:32,940
Concepts we already understand anyway

1304
00:55:38,030 --> 00:55:35,880
yeah don't drop nuclear bombs on each

1305
00:55:40,370 --> 00:55:38,040
other or take care of the environment in

1306
00:55:42,410 --> 00:55:40,380
an individualistic way you know do your

1307
00:55:44,089 --> 00:55:42,420
part and recycle not uh the aliens are

1308
00:55:45,650 --> 00:55:44,099
coming down and telling any of the

1309
00:55:47,809 --> 00:55:45,660
corporations that are polluting the air

1310
00:55:49,250 --> 00:55:47,819
adding uh have a larger carbon footprint

1311
00:55:52,849 --> 00:55:49,260
to stop that it's always like you know

1312
00:55:54,410 --> 00:55:52,859
the individual or a group of children

1313
00:55:57,670 --> 00:55:54,420
yeah it doesn't seem like a good

1314
00:56:00,650 --> 00:55:57,680
strategy to me for these aliens

1315
00:56:03,470 --> 00:56:00,660
yeah it is always sort of uh the reverse

1316
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:03,480
uh psychology it's sort of like

1317
00:56:09,710 --> 00:56:06,960
um since this is true what could explain

1318
00:56:11,870 --> 00:56:09,720
that right it's um sort of I call it I

1319
00:56:13,390 --> 00:56:11,880
guess religious thinking or magical

1320
00:56:16,190 --> 00:56:13,400
thing or whatever

1321
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,200
constructing it in reverse

1322
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:18,480
and uh we're sort of seeing actually

1323
00:56:22,370 --> 00:56:21,119
like like with these figures they are I

1324
00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:22,380
sort of get a sense that they're like

1325
00:56:28,130 --> 00:56:25,020
almost becoming like mythical figures in

1326
00:56:30,109 --> 00:56:28,140
a um like it's not an organized religion

1327
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:30,119
in any sense of it but there are like a

1328
00:56:37,309 --> 00:56:33,359
sort of loose system of beliefs that are

1329
00:56:40,010 --> 00:56:37,319
um coalescing in a way uh that I'm I'm

1330
00:56:42,770 --> 00:56:40,020
seeing it progressively like uh on the

1331
00:56:46,210 --> 00:56:42,780
forums on uh you know Twitter on Reddit

1332
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:46,220
and stuff and um it does bear some

1333
00:56:49,849 --> 00:56:48,720
similarities in some respects perhaps uh

1334
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:49,859
Louise you could speak on this too

1335
00:56:53,690 --> 00:56:51,599
because of your knowledge of it like the

1336
00:56:56,569 --> 00:56:53,700
uh emergence of a cult

1337
00:56:58,970 --> 00:56:56,579
uh traditions in the 19th century almost

1338
00:57:00,650 --> 00:56:58,980
uh yeah as a rad reaction to you know

1339
00:57:02,990 --> 00:57:00,660
the theory of evolution and sort of like

1340
00:57:05,390 --> 00:57:03,000
materialism and stuff and that was all

1341
00:57:07,910 --> 00:57:05,400
rooted in the idea that there was an act

1342
00:57:10,370 --> 00:57:07,920
of communication with yeah other

1343
00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:10,380
entities this hope for certainly like

1344
00:57:17,329 --> 00:57:11,760
yeah

1345
00:57:19,490 --> 00:57:17,339
spiritualism went in for that stuff some

1346
00:57:21,710 --> 00:57:19,500
um groups like theosophy also believe

1347
00:57:24,589 --> 00:57:21,720
that they could um communicate directly

1348
00:57:27,710 --> 00:57:24,599
with um beings like at a higher

1349
00:57:29,630 --> 00:57:27,720
dimensional or spiritual level and that

1350
00:57:32,930 --> 00:57:29,640
that got you know transformed into

1351
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:32,940
literal extraterrestrials on Venus

1352
00:57:36,349 --> 00:57:35,040
um Venus is also like something which

1353
00:57:39,109 --> 00:57:36,359
has long been

1354
00:57:43,370 --> 00:57:39,119
used by contactees especially those

1355
00:57:46,609 --> 00:57:43,380
influenced by theosophy but um yeah with

1356
00:57:49,250 --> 00:57:46,619
Cults you sometimes do get these extreme

1357
00:57:53,089 --> 00:57:49,260
beliefs like the ones um we saw with

1358
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:53,099
Heaven's Gate uh if you recall you know

1359
00:57:58,690 --> 00:57:55,200
mass suicide because they thought that

1360
00:58:01,490 --> 00:57:58,700
the comet um was going to take them away

1361
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,500
they had to kill themselves to ascend to

1362
00:58:04,849 --> 00:58:03,119
the comet which is actually hiding a

1363
00:58:07,069 --> 00:58:04,859
spaceship

1364
00:58:10,190 --> 00:58:07,079
um you also see things like um the order

1365
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:10,200
of the solar Temple which was a I don't

1366
00:58:14,329 --> 00:58:12,000
think that was really a UFO religion but

1367
00:58:17,089 --> 00:58:14,339
it had some Cosmic beliefs along those

1368
00:58:20,450 --> 00:58:17,099
lines there was a cult which

1369
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:20,460
um was active in France Switzerland and

1370
00:58:25,370 --> 00:58:21,599
Quebec

1371
00:58:29,450 --> 00:58:25,380
and um they also did a mass suicide

1372
00:58:32,510 --> 00:58:29,460
um I think it was in the 90s and um

1373
00:58:34,670 --> 00:58:32,520
right now we're seeing stuff like the

1374
00:58:36,849 --> 00:58:34,680
uh star seeds

1375
00:58:38,690 --> 00:58:36,859
and these ideas about genetic

1376
00:58:41,150 --> 00:58:38,700
predispositions to

1377
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:41,160
being in contact with the UFOs or aliens

1378
00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:42,960
right and there's the whole

1379
00:58:48,049 --> 00:58:44,760
Consciousness aspect as well where

1380
00:58:51,230 --> 00:58:49,010
um

1381
00:58:53,329 --> 00:58:51,240
they're communicating with aliens and

1382
00:58:55,309 --> 00:58:53,339
sometimes even they are the aliens like

1383
00:58:57,049 --> 00:58:55,319
that they lived in a previous life as an

1384
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:57,059
extraterrestrial but that they're here

1385
00:58:59,990 --> 00:58:57,839
to

1386
00:59:02,210 --> 00:59:00,000
help liberate mankind

1387
00:59:04,430 --> 00:59:02,220
and that can lead to extremism easily

1388
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:04,440
because you know in this current culture

1389
00:59:08,329 --> 00:59:07,680
and political situation

1390
00:59:10,010 --> 00:59:08,339
um

1391
00:59:12,109 --> 00:59:10,020
there's really like a breakdown of

1392
00:59:15,890 --> 00:59:12,119
consensus reality

1393
00:59:18,829 --> 00:59:15,900
um Leah has spoken to that a lot as well

1394
00:59:21,410 --> 00:59:18,839
um and

1395
00:59:23,630 --> 00:59:21,420
you know fake news on all that stuff

1396
00:59:26,329 --> 00:59:23,640
um so people are kind of really primed

1397
00:59:28,910 --> 00:59:26,339
to believe really weird stuff

1398
00:59:30,589 --> 00:59:28,920
uh speaking to your question Campbell do

1399
00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:30,599
you think that maybe these kind of

1400
00:59:33,470 --> 00:59:32,640
figures are created because we kind of

1401
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:33,480
have

1402
00:59:39,049 --> 00:59:35,280
especially coming from the perspective

1403
00:59:40,910 --> 00:59:39,059
of the eth or the nihi hypothesis which

1404
00:59:43,970 --> 00:59:40,920
I think is a natural conclusion to come

1405
00:59:45,230 --> 00:59:43,980
to living in the United States culture

1406
00:59:48,109 --> 00:59:45,240
um if you don't think about it too hard

1407
00:59:51,109 --> 00:59:48,119
but do you think that uh since there are

1408
00:59:52,730 --> 00:59:51,119
no real Authorities on the subject from

1409
00:59:54,589 --> 00:59:52,740
that perspective it kind of creates a

1410
00:59:56,930 --> 00:59:54,599
vacuum so we kind of just

1411
00:59:58,789 --> 00:59:56,940
put these people on pedestals just kind

1412
01:00:01,370 --> 00:59:58,799
of the most vocal people

1413
01:00:02,750 --> 01:00:01,380
because I think peop I think all of us

1414
01:00:04,130 --> 01:00:02,760
kind of have a tendency to seek out

1415
01:00:07,010 --> 01:00:04,140
authorities when we have questions for

1416
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:07,020
things like this and given that this in

1417
01:00:10,430 --> 01:00:08,400
my opinion comes from a kind of a

1418
01:00:12,650 --> 01:00:10,440
cultural Superstition there wouldn't

1419
01:00:15,470 --> 01:00:12,660
necessarily be authorities do you think

1420
01:00:20,329 --> 01:00:15,480
that that maybe is how these figures

1421
01:00:25,390 --> 01:00:22,309
are you asking me or no lawyers right

1422
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:28,430
uh it's for you oh geez I don't know

1423
01:00:32,510 --> 01:00:30,000
honestly yeah it's an interesting

1424
01:00:34,670 --> 01:00:32,520
question like uh yeah why

1425
01:00:38,690 --> 01:00:34,680
why do these certain people get elevated

1426
01:00:40,430 --> 01:00:38,700
right and um it has to do with in part

1427
01:00:43,849 --> 01:00:40,440
at least sort of verification of these

1428
01:00:46,609 --> 01:00:43,859
underlying things related to Identity

1429
01:00:48,589 --> 01:00:46,619
uh and and we see this in uh over and

1430
01:00:50,569 --> 01:00:48,599
over again in these communities it's uh

1431
01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:50,579
and they're self-selective right it's

1432
01:00:55,490 --> 01:00:51,359
like

1433
01:00:58,370 --> 01:00:55,500
if the person is capable of critically

1434
01:01:00,530 --> 01:00:58,380
challenging the claims then they

1435
01:01:01,970 --> 01:01:00,540
self-select out of it it's almost like

1436
01:01:05,150 --> 01:01:01,980
you know how it's like 90 whatever

1437
01:01:06,730 --> 01:01:05,160
percent of uh CEOs are a sociopaths

1438
01:01:08,690 --> 01:01:06,740
technically it's like it's it

1439
01:01:11,569 --> 01:01:08,700
self-selects they like weed themselves

1440
01:01:12,950 --> 01:01:11,579
out and you end up with the core and uh

1441
01:01:14,569 --> 01:01:12,960
from the in the population in general

1442
01:01:16,750 --> 01:01:14,579
maybe it's like a pretty small amount

1443
01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:16,760
but then you can create these um

1444
01:01:21,470 --> 01:01:19,260
subcultures that uh are very highly

1445
01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:21,480
concentrated with these particular views

1446
01:01:27,349 --> 01:01:24,900
and can create sort of these conditions

1447
01:01:29,630 --> 01:01:27,359
of self-radicalization

1448
01:01:31,730 --> 01:01:29,640
there's also the um

1449
01:01:33,890 --> 01:01:31,740
thing where people want to feel like

1450
01:01:35,630 --> 01:01:33,900
they are in possession of answers that

1451
01:01:38,109 --> 01:01:35,640
nobody else is and they want to be the

1452
01:01:41,690 --> 01:01:38,119
importance of knowledge yeah

1453
01:01:44,809 --> 01:01:41,700
a lot of yeah in conspiracy culture

1454
01:01:46,250 --> 01:01:44,819
um and also there's a scholar I forgot I

1455
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:46,260
forget his name he actually studies

1456
01:01:49,910 --> 01:01:48,240
conspiracy culture

1457
01:01:52,490 --> 01:01:49,920
um he said that conspiracy theories I

1458
01:01:54,650 --> 01:01:52,500
really like the poor man's heuristic

1459
01:01:56,329 --> 01:01:54,660
because there's a lot of complexity in

1460
01:01:58,730 --> 01:01:56,339
the world

1461
01:02:02,510 --> 01:01:58,740
um if you're poor you don't have that

1462
01:02:03,829 --> 01:02:02,520
much time to pass it all out and

1463
01:02:05,329 --> 01:02:03,839
conspiracy theories are kind of a

1464
01:02:07,309 --> 01:02:05,339
simplification of the world because you

1465
01:02:07,970 --> 01:02:07,319
can just allocate

1466
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:07,980
um

1467
01:02:15,410 --> 01:02:13,440
this cabal of conspiracies like the

1468
01:02:16,730 --> 01:02:15,420
Illuminati so it sort of simplifies the

1469
01:02:19,010 --> 01:02:16,740
universe

1470
01:02:21,650 --> 01:02:19,020
yeah and it kind of um when your

1471
01:02:24,349 --> 01:02:21,660
situation kind of contradicts that uh

1472
01:02:26,329 --> 01:02:24,359
that idea of meritocracy like poor

1473
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:26,339
people you know working full-time jobs

1474
01:02:29,329 --> 01:02:27,839
are working hard and they're not seeing

1475
01:02:31,069 --> 01:02:29,339
the benefit of that so there must be

1476
01:02:33,470 --> 01:02:31,079
some kind of outside reason for it so I

1477
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:33,480
can get out how that's appealing to a

1478
01:02:37,010 --> 01:02:34,559
lot of people and that's kind of

1479
01:02:40,370 --> 01:02:37,020
dangerous yeah but that that can't be

1480
01:02:43,370 --> 01:02:40,380
the only explanation either because with

1481
01:02:45,710 --> 01:02:43,380
um the order of the golden uh the solar

1482
01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:45,720
Temple for example and many other Cults

1483
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:48,000
you see um affluent middle class

1484
01:02:52,670 --> 01:02:49,680
professionals

1485
01:02:54,289 --> 01:02:52,680
um join them so it can't just be yeah

1486
01:02:56,450 --> 01:02:54,299
they're hankering for like simple

1487
01:02:59,089 --> 01:02:56,460
answers although there is like a

1488
01:03:02,809 --> 01:02:59,099
hankering for like a higher answer it's

1489
01:03:04,490 --> 01:03:02,819
not like just the desire to like make

1490
01:03:06,410 --> 01:03:04,500
everything simple

1491
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:06,420
um so like there has to be some other

1492
01:03:14,809 --> 01:03:12,230
so the the commonalities between all

1493
01:03:16,370 --> 01:03:14,819
these things and going back to like uh

1494
01:03:20,329 --> 01:03:16,380
the beginnings of spiritualism they're

1495
01:03:22,130 --> 01:03:20,339
all so similar it's really strange like

1496
01:03:24,349 --> 01:03:22,140
and kind of how a lot of people are

1497
01:03:26,630 --> 01:03:24,359
talking about Consciousness now as if

1498
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:26,640
it's kind of like this other place or

1499
01:03:32,210 --> 01:03:30,480
The Ether yeah where uh be it uh dead

1500
01:03:34,609 --> 01:03:32,220
dead Spirits are giving you uh

1501
01:03:36,609 --> 01:03:34,619
prophecies or it's uh psychic mediums

1502
01:03:39,410 --> 01:03:36,619
channeling or if these space Brothers

1503
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:39,420
contacting venusians it always seems to

1504
01:03:42,829 --> 01:03:41,280
be on that kind of edge of our

1505
01:03:45,230 --> 01:03:42,839
understanding kind of like what you were

1506
01:03:47,049 --> 01:03:45,240
talking about how um Bob Lazar would

1507
01:03:49,670 --> 01:03:47,059
speak you would use that kind of

1508
01:03:51,890 --> 01:03:49,680
pseudo-intellectual scientific flowery

1509
01:03:54,109 --> 01:03:51,900
language that was based on that kind of

1510
01:03:55,849 --> 01:03:54,119
uh hypothetical stuff that kind of goes

1511
01:03:58,250 --> 01:03:55,859
over a lot of people's heads who don't

1512
01:04:00,349 --> 01:03:58,260
have the Science Education so it sounds

1513
01:04:02,930 --> 01:04:00,359
intelligent it's really something like

1514
01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:02,940
that my opinion sorry my cat is yeah a

1515
01:04:08,630 --> 01:04:06,480
lot of quantum mysticism right now

1516
01:04:10,910 --> 01:04:08,640
um using the Gob of quantum mechanics

1517
01:04:13,970 --> 01:04:10,920
but trying to sneak in a bunch of

1518
01:04:14,809 --> 01:04:13,980
unverified claims and

1519
01:04:17,930 --> 01:04:14,819
um

1520
01:04:18,530 --> 01:04:17,940
archeology

1521
01:04:21,530 --> 01:04:18,540
um

1522
01:04:24,890 --> 01:04:21,540
you know uh what's his name

1523
01:04:29,630 --> 01:04:24,900
the the famous pseudo archaeologist

1524
01:04:32,150 --> 01:04:29,640
um oh Graham or Graham Hancock yes he

1525
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:34,069
sorry uh just this question really

1526
01:04:38,569 --> 01:04:36,240
quickly um what was the name of the

1527
01:04:40,370 --> 01:04:38,579
scholar you referenced about heuristics

1528
01:04:42,910 --> 01:04:40,380
let me

1529
01:04:47,870 --> 01:04:42,920
conspiracy nation is the book

1530
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,349
it's a good title

1531
01:04:56,569 --> 01:04:54,470
what is more American than conspiracy

1532
01:04:57,950 --> 01:04:56,579
that's the one who's the author or who's

1533
01:05:00,589 --> 01:04:57,960
the editor because it's actually a

1534
01:05:01,910 --> 01:05:00,599
compilation uh Peter Knight

1535
01:05:06,890 --> 01:05:01,920
yes

1536
01:05:10,670 --> 01:05:08,569
what was I saying

1537
01:05:13,849 --> 01:05:10,680
yeah it really cut you off there it was

1538
01:05:16,370 --> 01:05:13,859
a response to uh Hancock

1539
01:05:18,370 --> 01:05:16,380
yes yeah Hancock has um always been

1540
01:05:20,230 --> 01:05:18,380
about the sort of Atlantis and um

1541
01:05:23,089 --> 01:05:20,240
ancient

1542
01:05:25,069 --> 01:05:23,099
uh civilizations which have

1543
01:05:26,990 --> 01:05:25,079
you know were destroyed by a giant flood

1544
01:05:29,569 --> 01:05:27,000
and that sort of stuff

1545
01:05:32,089 --> 01:05:29,579
um he did briefly flirt with um ancient

1546
01:05:33,770 --> 01:05:32,099
astronauts ideas in the 90s but then he

1547
01:05:35,990 --> 01:05:33,780
got out of that

1548
01:05:39,410 --> 01:05:36,000
if you remember the um so-called face on

1549
01:05:42,349 --> 01:05:39,420
Mars yes hogland was the one promoting

1550
01:05:44,630 --> 01:05:42,359
that and then Hancock got in on that act

1551
01:05:46,970 --> 01:05:44,640
for a brief time but then he pulled out

1552
01:05:48,470 --> 01:05:46,980
went back to Atlantis

1553
01:05:50,450 --> 01:05:48,480
ideas

1554
01:05:52,549 --> 01:05:50,460
um

1555
01:05:54,890 --> 01:05:52,559
so I mean it's kind of across the board

1556
01:05:55,730 --> 01:05:54,900
of this sort of pseudoscience is um not

1557
01:05:57,950 --> 01:05:55,740
just

1558
01:05:59,329 --> 01:05:57,960
in Quantum mysticism but it's also

1559
01:06:01,730 --> 01:05:59,339
archeology

1560
01:06:04,990 --> 01:06:01,740
um human psychology

1561
01:06:07,849 --> 01:06:05,000
um and uh Jung also is brought up a lot

1562
01:06:10,430 --> 01:06:07,859
uh as well although there are some valid

1563
01:06:11,990 --> 01:06:10,440
ideas by Jung and I think we should

1564
01:06:16,549 --> 01:06:12,000
explore them but I think sometimes

1565
01:06:21,650 --> 01:06:18,530
yeah I agree

1566
01:06:25,010 --> 01:06:21,660
just kind of um at face value and

1567
01:06:29,089 --> 01:06:27,289
so Louise uh maybe we could talk a

1568
01:06:30,230 --> 01:06:29,099
little bit about like

1569
01:06:32,870 --> 01:06:30,240
um

1570
01:06:35,690 --> 01:06:32,880
like the harm side of things we touched

1571
01:06:37,069 --> 01:06:35,700
on sort of like the fact that um these

1572
01:06:39,589 --> 01:06:37,079
groups sort of come together and

1573
01:06:43,490 --> 01:06:39,599
sometimes get into these uh sort of

1574
01:06:45,109 --> 01:06:43,500
ritual like cult situations and uh you

1575
01:06:47,930 --> 01:06:45,119
know a lot of time it's like stuff that

1576
01:06:49,849 --> 01:06:47,940
doesn't look as uh dangerous as it is

1577
01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:49,859
like at surface level right like it's

1578
01:06:54,289 --> 01:06:52,319
like the belief that you're like kind of

1579
01:06:56,210 --> 01:06:54,299
communicating with another being like

1580
01:06:57,650 --> 01:06:56,220
you know that that's almost mainstream

1581
01:06:59,510 --> 01:06:57,660
really in some ways if you think about

1582
01:07:00,829 --> 01:06:59,520
it from like a religious framing or

1583
01:07:03,170 --> 01:07:00,839
something like a large percentage of

1584
01:07:05,650 --> 01:07:03,180
people think that so then yeah like

1585
01:07:08,029 --> 01:07:05,660
there's the sort of

1586
01:07:08,930 --> 01:07:08,039
nefarious elements that we're touching

1587
01:07:12,650 --> 01:07:08,940
on

1588
01:07:14,750 --> 01:07:12,660
um where this can sort of like emerge

1589
01:07:17,270 --> 01:07:14,760
um like what what should people sort of

1590
01:07:20,089 --> 01:07:17,280
be looking out for like for themselves

1591
01:07:21,549 --> 01:07:20,099
in terms of avoiding so finding

1592
01:07:25,370 --> 01:07:21,559
themselves into that sort of situation

1593
01:07:27,650 --> 01:07:25,380
the way that these uh conspiracy beliefs

1594
01:07:30,049 --> 01:07:27,660
um overlap and converge and the way that

1595
01:07:31,309 --> 01:07:30,059
um the purveyors are using UFOs and

1596
01:07:33,770 --> 01:07:31,319
aliens

1597
01:07:36,109 --> 01:07:33,780
as ways to

1598
01:07:37,789 --> 01:07:36,119
pull people into something else

1599
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:37,799
okay it's not really about the aliens or

1600
01:07:41,029 --> 01:07:40,079
UFOs ultimately it's about promoting

1601
01:07:42,950 --> 01:07:41,039
some

1602
01:07:44,270 --> 01:07:42,960
idea about how Society should be

1603
01:07:46,549 --> 01:07:44,280
organized

1604
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:46,559
um obviously you know many times a very

1605
01:07:51,470 --> 01:07:49,280
negative and um

1606
01:07:54,349 --> 01:07:51,480
authoritarian or very

1607
01:07:57,170 --> 01:07:54,359
bigoted uh social setup um you know

1608
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:57,180
neo-nazis have done this with UFOs

1609
01:08:01,910 --> 01:07:59,280
um they've written books and stuff to

1610
01:08:04,130 --> 01:08:01,920
sort of attract young people and the

1611
01:08:06,410 --> 01:08:04,140
idea there is really to

1612
01:08:09,650 --> 01:08:06,420
make people think like if the government

1613
01:08:11,630 --> 01:08:09,660
is lying about UFOs then maybe they're

1614
01:08:13,789 --> 01:08:11,640
also lying about the Holocaust and maybe

1615
01:08:16,249 --> 01:08:13,799
the Holocaust didn't actually happen and

1616
01:08:18,650 --> 01:08:16,259
maybe the Jews really are in control of

1617
01:08:23,169 --> 01:08:18,660
the world and maybe the Nazis weren't

1618
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:25,269
yeah but I mean

1619
01:08:30,829 --> 01:08:28,319
umdoll yeah

1620
01:08:32,269 --> 01:08:30,839
he actually wrote a book about UFOs and

1621
01:08:33,890 --> 01:08:32,279
he admitted that he didn't believe a

1622
01:08:35,870 --> 01:08:33,900
word of it it was just a way to get

1623
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:35,880
young people to kind of become

1624
01:08:41,090 --> 01:08:38,880
interested in Nazism

1625
01:08:44,269 --> 01:08:41,100
it's kind of how you operated too they

1626
01:08:45,890 --> 01:08:44,279
kind of uh just Incorporated all sorts

1627
01:08:48,169 --> 01:08:45,900
of conspiracy theories basically as

1628
01:08:50,269 --> 01:08:48,179
pipelines into that kind of core belief

1629
01:08:52,490 --> 01:08:50,279
right yes

1630
01:08:54,110 --> 01:08:52,500
so I mean I would be on the lookout for

1631
01:08:57,289 --> 01:08:54,120
for that

1632
01:08:59,209 --> 01:08:57,299
um ask what is the ulterior motive of

1633
01:09:03,110 --> 01:08:59,219
this person what else do they believe

1634
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:03,120
which is really far out

1635
01:09:05,990 --> 01:09:04,080
um

1636
01:09:07,430 --> 01:09:06,000
would I want to live in the society that

1637
01:09:11,870 --> 01:09:07,440
they want

1638
01:09:15,769 --> 01:09:11,880
okay and um do they do they benefit

1639
01:09:18,289 --> 01:09:15,779
um in some way like uh they get money

1640
01:09:22,130 --> 01:09:18,299
um even though they they don't really

1641
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:22,140
verify their claims they Source their

1642
01:09:29,150 --> 01:09:24,420
claims properly

1643
01:09:31,010 --> 01:09:29,160
um do they actually cite valid science

1644
01:09:32,510 --> 01:09:31,020
this is a very difficult for many people

1645
01:09:34,430 --> 01:09:32,520
because they don't really know how to

1646
01:09:36,410 --> 01:09:34,440
think about these things but that's sort

1647
01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:36,420
of the general Contour I guess is to

1648
01:09:43,189 --> 01:09:38,640
sort of be on the lookout for

1649
01:09:47,450 --> 01:09:45,349
yeah that's probably the simplest way to

1650
01:09:49,550 --> 01:09:47,460
put it yeah but there's a lot to go into

1651
01:09:50,930 --> 01:09:49,560
there because people have got like

1652
01:09:53,090 --> 01:09:50,940
different levels of scientific

1653
01:09:56,750 --> 01:09:53,100
understanding and

1654
01:10:01,550 --> 01:09:59,510
if somebody's telling you to drop your

1655
01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:01,560
logical and rational thought processes

1656
01:10:11,689 --> 01:10:08,570
with the with your own experience Louise

1657
01:10:13,130 --> 01:10:11,699
would you be uh able to comment a little

1658
01:10:16,370 --> 01:10:13,140
bit about like maybe just like the first

1659
01:10:17,570 --> 01:10:16,380
time you heard about Bob Lazar and the

1660
01:10:19,729 --> 01:10:17,580
context of that and what you thought

1661
01:10:21,229 --> 01:10:19,739
initially and maybe like a bit about

1662
01:10:23,689 --> 01:10:21,239
like the development of your thoughts

1663
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:23,699
over time if they changed the first time

1664
01:10:30,950 --> 01:10:27,840
I heard about Lazar I think was in

1665
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:30,960
a magazine series in the 90s

1666
01:10:36,050 --> 01:10:32,640
this might have been like in the mid so

1667
01:10:39,070 --> 01:10:36,060
mid 90s 1997 that time

1668
01:10:42,110 --> 01:10:39,080
um it was called The X Factor

1669
01:10:43,370 --> 01:10:42,120
weekly or bi-weekly um magazine that you

1670
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:43,380
would purchase

1671
01:10:48,110 --> 01:10:45,840
and you build up like this nice sort of

1672
01:10:48,890 --> 01:10:48,120
volume this set

1673
01:10:51,649 --> 01:10:48,900
um

1674
01:10:53,149 --> 01:10:51,659
it had a piece in there about Lazar sort

1675
01:10:55,250 --> 01:10:53,159
of a pre

1676
01:10:57,110 --> 01:10:55,260
it was basically pushing his story

1677
01:10:58,370 --> 01:10:57,120
although it did mention the brothel

1678
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:58,380
thing

1679
01:11:04,189 --> 01:11:00,239
um

1680
01:11:06,590 --> 01:11:04,199
you know I was a teenager back then so I

1681
01:11:09,830 --> 01:11:06,600
sort of believed that the teenagers are

1682
01:11:11,149 --> 01:11:09,840
very very susceptible by the way to

1683
01:11:13,510 --> 01:11:11,159
um

1684
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:13,520
sort of counter-cultural

1685
01:11:17,930 --> 01:11:16,080
authority figures they reject

1686
01:11:21,169 --> 01:11:17,940
traditional Authority or established

1687
01:11:22,850 --> 01:11:21,179
Authority but they want to believe

1688
01:11:25,970 --> 01:11:22,860
um other types of authority like

1689
01:11:27,649 --> 01:11:25,980
conspiracy theorists so but anyway I

1690
01:11:29,390 --> 01:11:27,659
sort of believed it back then I didn't

1691
01:11:31,610 --> 01:11:29,400
know anything about

1692
01:11:33,770 --> 01:11:31,620
you know the ins and outs of element 115

1693
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:33,780
or anything like that

1694
01:11:36,470 --> 01:11:34,560
um

1695
01:11:40,550 --> 01:11:36,480
and then I dropped it for a long time

1696
01:11:42,250 --> 01:11:40,560
and then um more recently I read also

1697
01:11:45,950 --> 01:11:42,260
not read I um

1698
01:11:48,530 --> 01:11:45,960
watched a video by the mouthy Buddha

1699
01:11:49,850 --> 01:11:48,540
which I think is a channel that got

1700
01:11:54,350 --> 01:11:49,860
dropped

1701
01:11:56,930 --> 01:11:54,360
but um he made a video about Lazar and

1702
01:12:00,950 --> 01:11:56,940
he was asking like sort of pros and cons

1703
01:12:03,050 --> 01:12:00,960
of the story trying to balance it out

1704
01:12:06,169 --> 01:12:03,060
and he made some Claim about

1705
01:12:08,090 --> 01:12:06,179
um Zeta reticuli well Lazar did that the

1706
01:12:10,850 --> 01:12:08,100
um he read in a briefing document that

1707
01:12:14,030 --> 01:12:10,860
the aliens come from Zeta reticuli and

1708
01:12:16,370 --> 01:12:14,040
then that sort of got me thinking well

1709
01:12:19,070 --> 01:12:16,380
um Zeta reticuli the only reason that we

1710
01:12:20,810 --> 01:12:19,080
think about Zeta reticuli in alien UFO

1711
01:12:23,090 --> 01:12:20,820
law is because of the Betty and Barney

1712
01:12:26,030 --> 01:12:23,100
Hill story and

1713
01:12:28,189 --> 01:12:26,040
that was completely debunked as like a

1714
01:12:30,350 --> 01:12:28,199
possible sight for the aliens because

1715
01:12:32,450 --> 01:12:30,360
you know the star map didn't work and

1716
01:12:35,149 --> 01:12:32,460
stuff like that the updated data from

1717
01:12:37,370 --> 01:12:35,159
the hit park or satellite

1718
01:12:40,490 --> 01:12:37,380
so in other words

1719
01:12:43,010 --> 01:12:40,500
um lizard just got that Trope because it

1720
01:12:44,510 --> 01:12:43,020
was doing the rounds in UFO lore and for

1721
01:12:46,490 --> 01:12:44,520
no other reason

1722
01:12:48,410 --> 01:12:46,500
well although he says like he can't

1723
01:12:49,729 --> 01:12:48,420
vouch for it because it was a briefing

1724
01:12:53,050 --> 01:12:49,739
document and maybe it was just

1725
01:12:56,330 --> 01:12:53,060
disinformation but again he's just like

1726
01:12:58,550 --> 01:12:56,340
covering his own ass he right you know

1727
01:13:00,649 --> 01:12:58,560
they can kind of say anything yeah

1728
01:13:03,169 --> 01:13:00,659
typical of Lazar to

1729
01:13:04,550 --> 01:13:03,179
always give himself like an out for any

1730
01:13:08,090 --> 01:13:04,560
of his claims

1731
01:13:09,590 --> 01:13:08,100
well it's so uh it's all of them kind of

1732
01:13:11,510 --> 01:13:09,600
have a similar theme uh that we're

1733
01:13:14,510 --> 01:13:11,520
seeing right that um it's like the face

1734
01:13:16,189 --> 01:13:14,520
on Mars and whatever like and that's

1735
01:13:17,830 --> 01:13:16,199
more of a literal thing where like

1736
01:13:20,510 --> 01:13:17,840
there's a sort of

1737
01:13:22,729 --> 01:13:20,520
observation and a claim about that

1738
01:13:24,830 --> 01:13:22,739
observation and then when you literally

1739
01:13:26,229 --> 01:13:24,840
like in this case physically get a

1740
01:13:30,590 --> 01:13:26,239
higher resolution

1741
01:13:33,070 --> 01:13:30,600
it dissolves into being nothing

1742
01:13:39,229 --> 01:13:35,689
said that um that's because NASA

1743
01:13:42,050 --> 01:13:39,239
airbrushed it or they changed it wow I

1744
01:13:45,050 --> 01:13:42,060
mean yeah and then you push the sort of

1745
01:13:46,669 --> 01:13:45,060
story forward uh over and over until it

1746
01:13:49,910 --> 01:13:46,679
it becomes impossible I guess because

1747
01:13:52,310 --> 01:13:49,920
how many spacecraft are over the Mar

1748
01:13:54,830 --> 01:13:52,320
Mars now right like uh there's several

1749
01:13:57,169 --> 01:13:54,840
uh different nations uh doing work there

1750
01:13:58,490 --> 01:13:57,179
so if NASA wanted to hide it why did

1751
01:13:59,810 --> 01:13:58,500
they release that photo in the first

1752
01:14:02,870 --> 01:13:59,820
place

1753
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:07,910
everybody makes mistakes sometimes yeah

1754
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:11,810
Wild

1755
01:14:16,070 --> 01:14:13,850
yeah well Amy and that's the way that uh

1756
01:14:19,729 --> 01:14:16,080
it's the way that it seems to occur uh

1757
01:14:22,130 --> 01:14:19,739
yeah it's too bad because it's like I

1758
01:14:26,149 --> 01:14:22,140
like the idea of it like in the you know

1759
01:14:28,250 --> 01:14:26,159
late 1800s uh in uh whatever I feel like

1760
01:14:30,649 --> 01:14:28,260
I would have been like oh that would be

1761
01:14:32,450 --> 01:14:30,659
pretty cool if uh the scientists

1762
01:14:34,550 --> 01:14:32,460
claiming they're seeing canals on Mars

1763
01:14:35,930 --> 01:14:34,560
that would be neat if it actually was

1764
01:14:37,310 --> 01:14:35,940
real

1765
01:14:40,370 --> 01:14:37,320
um you know

1766
01:14:42,890 --> 01:14:40,380
I guess it just sort of comes down to

1767
01:14:44,930 --> 01:14:42,900
like what you actually I mean and like I

1768
01:14:47,930 --> 01:14:44,940
started the show I changed the intro a

1769
01:14:50,330 --> 01:14:47,940
tiny bit I I included that we uh focus

1770
01:14:53,149 --> 01:14:50,340
on epistemology as well and that's you

1771
01:14:56,030 --> 01:14:53,159
know the the delineation between opinion

1772
01:14:58,370 --> 01:14:56,040
and fact the justifications for that

1773
01:14:59,810 --> 01:14:58,380
that sort of comes down to like a lot of

1774
01:15:02,209 --> 01:14:59,820
this comes down to that right like how

1775
01:15:04,450 --> 01:15:02,219
you justify like what you interpret as a

1776
01:15:07,310 --> 01:15:04,460
fact from an opinion

1777
01:15:09,470 --> 01:15:07,320
and uh right now we're sort of talking

1778
01:15:12,530 --> 01:15:09,480
about a lot of of statements from an

1779
01:15:14,510 --> 01:15:12,540
individual and uh you know I impulsively

1780
01:15:17,090 --> 01:15:14,520
want to believe people when they're

1781
01:15:20,149 --> 01:15:17,100
talking but uh it's sort of like that uh

1782
01:15:24,169 --> 01:15:20,159
old Russian saying um that Ronald Reagan

1783
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:24,179
appropriated you know trust but verify

1784
01:15:30,590 --> 01:15:27,000
um the verification is very uh important

1785
01:15:36,729 --> 01:15:34,790
yeah um Lazar um basically refuses to be

1786
01:15:39,110 --> 01:15:36,739
verified because

1787
01:15:40,729 --> 01:15:39,120
he supposedly is a physicist but he

1788
01:15:42,530 --> 01:15:40,739
never

1789
01:15:45,169 --> 01:15:42,540
um is like interviewed by other

1790
01:15:47,689 --> 01:15:45,179
physicists he supposedly peers right

1791
01:15:50,390 --> 01:15:47,699
right he was actually apparently he was

1792
01:15:55,130 --> 01:15:50,400
invited by Ben Rich who was the head of

1793
01:15:57,649 --> 01:15:55,140
the Skunk Works um back in the minds

1794
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:57,659
um the Lockheed Skunk Works uh Ben Rich

1795
01:16:02,689 --> 01:16:00,480
heard lazar's story he actually invited

1796
01:16:05,090 --> 01:16:02,699
lazatsu like a gathering of Aerospace

1797
01:16:07,130 --> 01:16:05,100
journalists and Engineers Lazar of

1798
01:16:09,709 --> 01:16:07,140
course declined

1799
01:16:11,870 --> 01:16:09,719
what's up with like uh Skunk Works

1800
01:16:14,930 --> 01:16:11,880
because we've had Skunk Works appear in

1801
01:16:17,450 --> 01:16:14,940
the recent uh UFO narrative as well

1802
01:16:20,630 --> 01:16:17,460
um if I remember right Tom DeLonge

1803
01:16:22,490 --> 01:16:20,640
recruited uh a former director of Skunk

1804
01:16:25,850 --> 01:16:22,500
Works to serve on his like executive

1805
01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:25,860
team of his uh to the Stars startup when

1806
01:16:30,169 --> 01:16:28,560
he was trying to uh do uh well claiming

1807
01:16:32,149 --> 01:16:30,179
that he was going to reverse engineer

1808
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:32,159
UFO and stuff like that

1809
01:16:35,510 --> 01:16:32,880
um

1810
01:16:38,090 --> 01:16:35,520
did are you familiar with uh sort of the

1811
01:16:39,649 --> 01:16:38,100
ins and outs of the the what it's an

1812
01:16:41,390 --> 01:16:39,659
advanced weapons program of some kind

1813
01:16:44,390 --> 01:16:41,400
right yeah

1814
01:16:45,890 --> 01:16:44,400
Skunk Works started in the 50s and the

1815
01:16:47,450 --> 01:16:45,900
late 50s I think

1816
01:16:49,310 --> 01:16:47,460
um

1817
01:16:51,350 --> 01:16:49,320
the Lockheed company which is now the

1818
01:16:54,410 --> 01:16:51,360
Lockheed modern company after they

1819
01:16:56,030 --> 01:16:54,420
merged with um modern Marietta I think

1820
01:16:59,149 --> 01:16:56,040
it was called

1821
01:17:03,850 --> 01:17:02,090
it's like a kind of a very high-tech uh

1822
01:17:07,310 --> 01:17:03,860
or special

1823
01:17:10,850 --> 01:17:07,320
Aerospace program very Innovative that's

1824
01:17:12,830 --> 01:17:10,860
you know the U2 the SR-71 Blackbird and

1825
01:17:16,189 --> 01:17:12,840
other planes came out of that program

1826
01:17:16,910 --> 01:17:16,199
okay and um some of those projects we're

1827
01:17:20,030 --> 01:17:16,920
doing

1828
01:17:21,830 --> 01:17:20,040
um were being tested at the um at area

1829
01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:21,840
51.

1830
01:17:27,470 --> 01:17:24,960
so Area 51 has long been

1831
01:17:30,229 --> 01:17:27,480
um sort of at the center of UFO lore the

1832
01:17:32,570 --> 01:17:30,239
CIA itself actually said I don't know if

1833
01:17:34,610 --> 01:17:32,580
this is true but um they claimed that um

1834
01:17:38,689 --> 01:17:34,620
half the UFO sightings during the Cold

1835
01:17:41,689 --> 01:17:38,699
War were due to misidentifications of

1836
01:17:43,250 --> 01:17:41,699
aircraft coming out of area 51.

1837
01:17:45,290 --> 01:17:43,260
um

1838
01:17:47,030 --> 01:17:45,300
I heard something about like that they

1839
01:17:49,910 --> 01:17:47,040
originally were doing the like really

1840
01:17:52,250 --> 01:17:49,920
high flying stealth craft like they were

1841
01:17:54,830 --> 01:17:52,260
um they were in Chrome or something and

1842
01:17:57,229 --> 01:17:54,840
it was just like reflective going off

1843
01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:57,239
the charts with people calling it in

1844
01:18:00,530 --> 01:17:58,800
especially with like the whole like oh

1845
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:00,540
the Soviets are in the sky because of

1846
01:18:04,990 --> 01:18:03,120
Sputnik and all of that right so so then

1847
01:18:08,870 --> 01:18:05,000
they started painting them black

1848
01:18:11,510 --> 01:18:08,880
yeah and in a way the the government

1849
01:18:13,910 --> 01:18:11,520
might have found it useful to allow

1850
01:18:15,950 --> 01:18:13,920
people to believe in UFO stories because

1851
01:18:16,729 --> 01:18:15,960
it acted as a useful cover for what was

1852
01:18:20,330 --> 01:18:16,739
actually

1853
01:18:22,130 --> 01:18:20,340
going on but um uh the question you're

1854
01:18:24,649 --> 01:18:22,140
asking is more about like the the

1855
01:18:27,229 --> 01:18:24,659
current sort of personalities involved

1856
01:18:29,570 --> 01:18:27,239
in um ttsa right and

1857
01:18:31,250 --> 01:18:29,580
so I don't know like I mean maybe

1858
01:18:33,410 --> 01:18:31,260
there's something about the personality

1859
01:18:35,510 --> 01:18:33,420
of people at Skunk Works like they sort

1860
01:18:37,610 --> 01:18:35,520
of think outside the box and some of

1861
01:18:39,649 --> 01:18:37,620
them just happen to be a little bit

1862
01:18:41,810 --> 01:18:39,659
too much in that direction and so they

1863
01:18:42,590 --> 01:18:41,820
sort of predisposed to believing that we

1864
01:18:44,930 --> 01:18:42,600
can

1865
01:18:49,390 --> 01:18:44,940
maybe capture alien spacecraft and

1866
01:18:54,590 --> 01:18:52,729
like a Skunk Works um you probably know

1867
01:18:57,530 --> 01:18:54,600
more about this person than I do but um

1868
01:18:58,970 --> 01:18:57,540
if somebody joins ttsa and they're from

1869
01:19:00,530 --> 01:18:58,980
the Skunk Works

1870
01:19:02,530 --> 01:19:00,540
and they're not saying that they

1871
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:02,540
themselves worked on recovered craft

1872
01:19:06,110 --> 01:19:04,560
then doesn't that mean that there were

1873
01:19:08,330 --> 01:19:06,120
no recovered crafts because they would

1874
01:19:08,340 --> 01:19:13,430
that's what they have to say yeah right

1875
01:19:16,390 --> 01:19:14,810
yeah well that's a good point though

1876
01:19:19,729 --> 01:19:16,400
yeah

1877
01:19:23,030 --> 01:19:19,739
not just Lockheed Skunk Works but

1878
01:19:24,890 --> 01:19:23,040
there's also Boeing special division but

1879
01:19:28,130 --> 01:19:24,900
I mean really any of these Giants in

1880
01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:28,140
Aerospace um they would know about any

1881
01:19:32,209 --> 01:19:29,520
reverse engineering because they'd be

1882
01:19:34,669 --> 01:19:32,219
the ones to do it right so with the

1883
01:19:35,930 --> 01:19:34,679
Department of energy as well

1884
01:19:38,510 --> 01:19:35,940
um

1885
01:19:40,070 --> 01:19:38,520
which uh has got extensive experience at

1886
01:19:44,149 --> 01:19:40,080
the Nevada Test Site

1887
01:19:46,669 --> 01:19:44,159
and does many secret projects as well

1888
01:19:48,350 --> 01:19:46,679
on nuclear energy and they would be

1889
01:19:50,930 --> 01:19:48,360
reverse engineering any antimatter

1890
01:19:52,550 --> 01:19:50,940
reactor or anything like that but

1891
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:52,560
there's absolutely no evidence from any

1892
01:19:59,570 --> 01:19:56,159
former doe directors or anybody that

1893
01:20:01,310 --> 01:19:59,580
there was there was any such program

1894
01:20:03,290 --> 01:20:01,320
you'll see everything the stuff that

1895
01:20:05,930 --> 01:20:03,300
Lazar is claiming would be highly

1896
01:20:08,030 --> 01:20:05,940
classified right like yeah you're able

1897
01:20:10,370 --> 01:20:08,040
to continue to do we saw that uh that

1898
01:20:12,530 --> 01:20:10,380
kid who leaked classified documents to

1899
01:20:15,110 --> 01:20:12,540
and some I think it was a Discord

1900
01:20:17,090 --> 01:20:15,120
there's people in um yeah some online

1901
01:20:18,590 --> 01:20:17,100
game involving tanks that people are

1902
01:20:19,850 --> 01:20:18,600
constantly leaking classified Dockside

1903
01:20:24,169 --> 01:20:19,860
and those guys are getting scooped up

1904
01:20:27,590 --> 01:20:24,179
immediately on live TV too so lazara's

1905
01:20:30,169 --> 01:20:27,600
got a convenient reason uh excuse me

1906
01:20:32,209 --> 01:20:30,179
um if they were to assassinate or um

1907
01:20:34,370 --> 01:20:32,219
arrest him then it would only validate

1908
01:20:38,810 --> 01:20:34,380
his story that's why they never killed

1909
01:20:43,130 --> 01:20:40,510
awesome

1910
01:20:44,630 --> 01:20:43,140
but in fact that would set a terrible

1911
01:20:46,910 --> 01:20:44,640
precedent for other whistleblowers

1912
01:20:48,830 --> 01:20:46,920
because then anybody could just come out

1913
01:20:50,510 --> 01:20:48,840
with anything and there wouldn't be any

1914
01:20:52,790 --> 01:20:50,520
consequences so in fact they would

1915
01:20:55,189 --> 01:20:52,800
arrest them they would say I mean it was

1916
01:20:57,229 --> 01:20:55,199
actually yeah revealing that they

1917
01:21:00,830 --> 01:20:57,239
certainly would and they always do it's

1918
01:21:02,810 --> 01:21:00,840
true yeah the problem that um

1919
01:21:06,050 --> 01:21:02,820
Lazar himself claims that this program

1920
01:21:07,970 --> 01:21:06,060
was like even more classified than the

1921
01:21:10,970 --> 01:21:07,980
hydrogen bomb

1922
01:21:13,250 --> 01:21:10,980
um and like they just give it to him

1923
01:21:15,050 --> 01:21:13,260
this guy who invested in brothels who

1924
01:21:18,050 --> 01:21:15,060
lied about his education

1925
01:21:20,450 --> 01:21:18,060
who was like a KGB magnet

1926
01:21:23,810 --> 01:21:20,460
um he also claims that the program was

1927
01:21:26,390 --> 01:21:23,820
very sort of bare bones

1928
01:21:28,910 --> 01:21:26,400
um like it was hardly any resources were

1929
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:28,920
you know put to it somebody actually

1930
01:21:34,790 --> 01:21:30,960
mentioned that the um

1931
01:21:37,310 --> 01:21:34,800
just the tires on the SR-71 uh spy plane

1932
01:21:38,570 --> 01:21:37,320
had more people working on that than at

1933
01:21:41,090 --> 01:21:38,580
S4

1934
01:21:42,830 --> 01:21:41,100
it doesn't make any sense right if this

1935
01:21:45,590 --> 01:21:42,840
was like the most important program ever

1936
01:21:47,450 --> 01:21:45,600
to reverse engineer like anti-gravity

1937
01:21:51,590 --> 01:21:47,460
then it would be like the Manhattan

1938
01:21:53,270 --> 01:21:51,600
Project 2.0 right it was I feel like we

1939
01:21:55,550 --> 01:21:53,280
would see some kind of residual effects

1940
01:21:58,010 --> 01:21:55,560
from harnessing this new kind of like

1941
01:21:59,870 --> 01:21:58,020
Quantum Leap in technology too and I

1942
01:22:02,630 --> 01:21:59,880
know people will bring up like

1943
01:22:04,610 --> 01:22:02,640
ideas like Wi-Fi and fiber optics but we

1944
01:22:06,590 --> 01:22:04,620
can actually trace the origins back with

1945
01:22:09,229 --> 01:22:06,600
those you know for back so like what

1946
01:22:11,510 --> 01:22:09,239
what are we getting out of this because

1947
01:22:13,610 --> 01:22:11,520
we're not seeing it any uh in any wars

1948
01:22:14,990 --> 01:22:13,620
or anything right I'm not seeing it

1949
01:22:17,030 --> 01:22:15,000
domestically

1950
01:22:19,310 --> 01:22:17,040
so what what came from this like

1951
01:22:22,130 --> 01:22:19,320
ultimate technology that they reverse

1952
01:22:23,570 --> 01:22:22,140
engineered apparently nothing wow even

1953
01:22:26,930 --> 01:22:23,580
though those all claims that they test

1954
01:22:29,149 --> 01:22:26,940
flew the spacecraft at um S4 so they did

1955
01:22:31,850 --> 01:22:29,159
figure out basically how it works he

1956
01:22:33,890 --> 01:22:31,860
gave us all this fake physics he wants

1957
01:22:36,410 --> 01:22:33,900
us to believe so they did figure out how

1958
01:22:39,050 --> 01:22:36,420
it works basically according to him even

1959
01:22:40,669 --> 01:22:39,060
though they didn't according to him

1960
01:22:44,570 --> 01:22:40,679
um

1961
01:22:46,430 --> 01:22:44,580
some some people would say that the

1962
01:22:48,350 --> 01:22:46,440
government doesn't want um free energy

1963
01:22:51,290 --> 01:22:48,360
to be available because then it would

1964
01:22:52,010 --> 01:22:51,300
crash the economy but I think that in

1965
01:22:54,410 --> 01:22:52,020
fact

1966
01:22:57,530 --> 01:22:54,420
um free energy would give the us such a

1967
01:22:59,870 --> 01:22:57,540
strategic advantage that um

1968
01:23:02,209 --> 01:22:59,880
many people within the U.S scientists to

1969
01:23:05,229 --> 01:23:02,219
Engineers politicians military people

1970
01:23:09,550 --> 01:23:05,239
would rebel against any decision to

1971
01:23:14,030 --> 01:23:12,050
if you think about like um and this is

1972
01:23:16,370 --> 01:23:14,040
something that John B Alexander has

1973
01:23:18,830 --> 01:23:16,380
mentioned he's sort of a conspiracist

1974
01:23:22,510 --> 01:23:18,840
himself but um he's also close to the um

1975
01:23:25,550 --> 01:23:22,520
skin walker conspiracy nonsense as well

1976
01:23:28,130 --> 01:23:25,560
Skinwalker Ranch claims but he does

1977
01:23:28,910 --> 01:23:28,140
raise some good uh good points in his

1978
01:23:31,130 --> 01:23:28,920
book

1979
01:23:33,890 --> 01:23:31,140
one of them is that um if I had this

1980
01:23:38,270 --> 01:23:33,900
anti-gravity Tech then they would use it

1981
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:38,280
to rescue like Marines or soldiers who

1982
01:23:42,169 --> 01:23:41,040
are captured in war zones

1983
01:23:44,630 --> 01:23:42,179
um

1984
01:23:46,610 --> 01:23:44,640
and that the friends of those soldiers

1985
01:23:48,590 --> 01:23:46,620
would

1986
01:23:49,729 --> 01:23:48,600
expose that technology because they

1987
01:23:52,130 --> 01:23:49,739
would be angry that the government

1988
01:23:54,290 --> 01:23:52,140
didn't use it to rescue their friends

1989
01:23:56,689 --> 01:23:54,300
right there will be too many people

1990
01:23:59,149 --> 01:23:56,699
within the military who would

1991
01:24:01,669 --> 01:23:59,159
um realize that it could have been used

1992
01:24:03,530 --> 01:24:01,679
but it wasn't and that Americans died

1993
01:24:05,510 --> 01:24:03,540
because of that and they wouldn't put up

1994
01:24:09,010 --> 01:24:05,520
with that so there would be leaks all

1995
01:24:14,930 --> 01:24:11,990
and and there are uh historic precedence

1996
01:24:16,370 --> 01:24:14,940
of uh things like that like uh and I'm

1997
01:24:20,209 --> 01:24:16,380
just trying to remember the name of it

1998
01:24:23,510 --> 01:24:20,219
but the uh CIA project that was top

1999
01:24:24,890 --> 01:24:23,520
secret where they sent a uh fake mining

2000
01:24:28,370 --> 01:24:24,900
ship into the middle of the Pacific

2001
01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:28,380
Ocean to recover a

2002
01:24:34,669 --> 01:24:32,400
sunken Russian uh nuclear submarine they

2003
01:24:36,530 --> 01:24:34,679
kept it secret for uh like at least like

2004
01:24:38,930 --> 01:24:36,540
it was like 15 years or something that

2005
01:24:41,450 --> 01:24:38,940
they actually found the location of this

2006
01:24:43,370 --> 01:24:41,460
sunken Russian ship the Russians didn't

2007
01:24:45,470 --> 01:24:43,380
know where it was and that was actually

2008
01:24:47,450 --> 01:24:45,480
okay that that's actually related very

2009
01:24:48,729 --> 01:24:47,460
closely to a bunch of the stuff right

2010
01:24:51,110 --> 01:24:48,739
because they had the underwater

2011
01:24:53,390 --> 01:24:51,120
listening devices and they were able

2012
01:24:55,790 --> 01:24:53,400
throughout the entire oh not entire but

2013
01:24:57,770 --> 01:24:55,800
a lot of the Cold War to pinpoint the

2014
01:24:59,930 --> 01:24:57,780
exact location of the entire Soviet

2015
01:25:02,149 --> 01:24:59,940
nuclear Fleet in the Pacific the entire

2016
01:25:03,649 --> 01:25:02,159
time and they did keep that secret for

2017
01:25:07,010 --> 01:25:03,659
that time but it always does come out

2018
01:25:09,169 --> 01:25:07,020
and uh this is uh just a fraction of

2019
01:25:11,930 --> 01:25:09,179
like that's a fraction of you know

2020
01:25:14,630 --> 01:25:11,940
aliens were here and stuff so right it

2021
01:25:17,149 --> 01:25:14,640
really it does fall like it's just from

2022
01:25:18,530 --> 01:25:17,159
a human one individual to individual

2023
01:25:20,390 --> 01:25:18,540
level if you think about it it's like

2024
01:25:23,810 --> 01:25:20,400
these are people they go home and stuff

2025
01:25:25,250 --> 01:25:23,820
like it's I can't it's hard to conceive

2026
01:25:27,110 --> 01:25:25,260
of it being possible and when you

2027
01:25:30,110 --> 01:25:27,120
actually look at the details and you see

2028
01:25:33,530 --> 01:25:30,120
that they sort of call lapse they aren't

2029
01:25:35,390 --> 01:25:33,540
supported by looking deeper it it does

2030
01:25:39,169 --> 01:25:35,400
make you sort of sit back and think like

2031
01:25:39,950 --> 01:25:39,179
how does this have this level of sort of

2032
01:25:45,950 --> 01:25:39,960
like

2033
01:25:47,930 --> 01:25:45,960
stunning

2034
01:25:49,930 --> 01:25:47,940
it's a little bit like the moon landing

2035
01:25:53,990 --> 01:25:49,940
conspiracy theories

2036
01:25:56,590 --> 01:25:54,000
that just is it's not possible to

2037
01:25:59,209 --> 01:25:56,600
um cover up it would actually be more

2038
01:26:02,050 --> 01:25:59,219
difficult to fake the moon landings than

2039
01:26:05,270 --> 01:26:02,060
it would be to go go to the Moon

2040
01:26:06,590 --> 01:26:05,280
yeah right right okay thank you you

2041
01:26:08,510 --> 01:26:06,600
would have to you would have to trick

2042
01:26:10,330 --> 01:26:08,520
all the engineers and scientists into

2043
01:26:12,830 --> 01:26:10,340
believing that they were building a a

2044
01:26:14,149 --> 01:26:12,840
space-worthy vehicle even though it

2045
01:26:18,350 --> 01:26:14,159
wasn't

2046
01:26:21,350 --> 01:26:20,090
everybody in the launch that's such a

2047
01:26:23,709 --> 01:26:21,360
good point everybody would be there and

2048
01:26:27,709 --> 01:26:23,719
be like we're gonna do it like

2049
01:26:30,169 --> 01:26:27,719
like fake like uh miscalculating the

2050
01:26:33,410 --> 01:26:30,179
landing approach eh like I love that

2051
01:26:36,350 --> 01:26:33,420
part of it uh Armstrong taking manual

2052
01:26:38,629 --> 01:26:36,360
control of the spaceship with 20 seconds

2053
01:26:41,030 --> 01:26:38,639
of fuel left to actually land like

2054
01:26:45,350 --> 01:26:41,040
hundreds of meters past The Landing Pad

2055
01:26:47,090 --> 01:26:45,360
like it's stunning and uh it does uh it

2056
01:26:49,669 --> 01:26:47,100
just speaks to like how uh it doesn't

2057
01:26:51,890 --> 01:26:49,679
it's not attached directly to the facts

2058
01:26:53,930 --> 01:26:51,900
there's something else going on in

2059
01:26:56,090 --> 01:26:53,940
people's minds and it's like it's like

2060
01:26:56,990 --> 01:26:56,100
the alternative narrative is fulfilling

2061
01:27:00,649 --> 01:26:57,000
something

2062
01:27:01,850 --> 01:27:00,659
happening other than just the

2063
01:27:04,970 --> 01:27:01,860
information I just pulled this up

2064
01:27:06,410 --> 01:27:04,980
project azorian that's the CIA project I

2065
01:27:09,649 --> 01:27:06,420
was talking about just a show it's like

2066
01:27:11,689 --> 01:27:09,659
uh pretty interesting little thing just

2067
01:27:13,490 --> 01:27:11,699
just the government does do conspiracies

2068
01:27:15,229 --> 01:27:13,500
but uh we find out about them and their

2069
01:27:19,189 --> 01:27:15,239
theories then they're actually just part

2070
01:27:26,870 --> 01:27:21,350
yeah

2071
01:27:28,790 --> 01:27:26,880
wrap it up uh we we sort of um we're

2072
01:27:31,070 --> 01:27:28,800
very thankful Louise that you uh were

2073
01:27:32,450 --> 01:27:31,080
willing to sort of uh go into this uh

2074
01:27:35,450 --> 01:27:32,460
this evening

2075
01:27:38,510 --> 01:27:35,460
um do you have any uh final thoughts

2076
01:27:40,129 --> 01:27:38,520
Louise about lazar's story like uh

2077
01:27:43,129 --> 01:27:40,139
things that people should take away from

2078
01:27:45,709 --> 01:27:43,139
this uh people should

2079
01:27:48,649 --> 01:27:45,719
um counter to what Lazar said in the uh

2080
01:27:50,570 --> 01:27:48,659
call Bell documentary

2081
01:27:52,149 --> 01:27:50,580
um people should in fact uh look at the

2082
01:27:55,490 --> 01:27:52,159
minutiae

2083
01:27:57,470 --> 01:27:55,500
those sorts of details make um his sorts

2084
01:27:59,510 --> 01:27:57,480
of claims like very that makes it

2085
01:28:01,790 --> 01:27:59,520
untenable when you look at the um

2086
01:28:03,770 --> 01:28:01,800
institutional and historical

2087
01:28:05,510 --> 01:28:03,780
Nitty Gritty

2088
01:28:09,290 --> 01:28:05,520
um that's what really

2089
01:28:11,810 --> 01:28:09,300
destroys these kinds of stories

2090
01:28:15,110 --> 01:28:11,820
excellent it reminds me of uh what's

2091
01:28:16,850 --> 01:28:15,120
that quote of Jay Allen heinix where um

2092
01:28:18,050 --> 01:28:16,860
the UFO phenomenon is like a bundle of

2093
01:28:19,310 --> 01:28:18,060
sticks and it doesn't matter how many

2094
01:28:20,330 --> 01:28:19,320
break as long as they still hold

2095
01:28:25,570 --> 01:28:20,340
together

2096
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:25,580
but if any multiple of zero is zero so

2097
01:28:32,689 --> 01:28:30,080
if each claim crumbles as you look at it

2098
01:28:36,709 --> 01:28:32,699
Leslie King actually used that analogy

2099
01:28:39,649 --> 01:28:36,719
to oh say that um the the preponderance

2100
01:28:42,370 --> 01:28:39,659
of UFO cases speaks to the reality of a

2101
01:28:44,629 --> 01:28:42,380
of an otherworldly presence

2102
01:28:47,149 --> 01:28:44,639
like even though even if he could like

2103
01:28:49,370 --> 01:28:47,159
debunk any one of those strolls in that

2104
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:49,380
bundle you still have the bundle

2105
01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:51,120
so but I think that's really faulty

2106
01:28:56,750 --> 01:28:53,520
logic yeah it'd be really interesting

2107
01:28:58,729 --> 01:28:56,760
too that if there was some real alien

2108
01:29:01,430 --> 01:28:58,739
UFO encounter and it kind of conformed

2109
01:29:03,709 --> 01:29:01,440
to the homogeny of the UFO narrative

2110
01:29:05,930 --> 01:29:03,719
that we've kind of created culturally to

2111
01:29:07,910 --> 01:29:05,940
like a flying saucer Landing with a gray

2112
01:29:10,729 --> 01:29:07,920
in it despite right

2113
01:29:12,470 --> 01:29:10,739
you know decades and Decades of these

2114
01:29:15,050 --> 01:29:12,480
turning out to be misidentifications and

2115
01:29:17,390 --> 01:29:15,060
hoax is kind of spurred by media

2116
01:29:19,610 --> 01:29:17,400
so yeah that you'd think that the the

2117
01:29:21,169 --> 01:29:19,620
real case is the actual sticks there

2118
01:29:22,010 --> 01:29:21,179
would kind of stick out like a sore

2119
01:29:24,830 --> 01:29:22,020
thumb

2120
01:29:26,689 --> 01:29:24,840
the real case would be something that is

2121
01:29:28,550 --> 01:29:26,699
very different to the typical UFO

2122
01:29:30,950 --> 01:29:28,560
narrative and something that actually

2123
01:29:34,850 --> 01:29:30,960
has got strong evidence for it right

2124
01:29:37,850 --> 01:29:34,860
well yeah most importantly yeah and this

2125
01:29:40,910 --> 01:29:37,860
breaks to mind uh the origins of Occam's

2126
01:29:44,030 --> 01:29:40,920
razor right uh William of Occam a 14th

2127
01:29:47,270 --> 01:29:44,040
century Friar Occam's razor was

2128
01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:47,280
originally created to argue that the uh

2129
01:29:52,310 --> 01:29:49,920
wide number of claims of witnessing

2130
01:29:54,530 --> 01:29:52,320
miracles from around Europe uh

2131
01:29:56,990 --> 01:29:54,540
throughout the years similar features of

2132
01:29:58,490 --> 01:29:57,000
the clams provided evidence that the

2133
01:30:01,070 --> 01:29:58,500
simplest answer is that Miracles are

2134
01:30:03,470 --> 01:30:01,080
real and that was the origin of Occam's

2135
01:30:06,110 --> 01:30:03,480
razor so uh it's important to remember

2136
01:30:07,550 --> 01:30:06,120
that um you know even in applying

2137
01:30:09,410 --> 01:30:07,560
Occam's race or something what you're

2138
01:30:11,629 --> 01:30:09,420
putting into it is what really kind of

2139
01:30:14,270 --> 01:30:11,639
matters more than sort of the the little

2140
01:30:17,450 --> 01:30:14,280
trick itself like like the details

2141
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:20,750
is that it I guess I guess so for now

2142
01:30:26,570 --> 01:30:23,760
yeah Nick you have any parting words for

2143
01:30:30,050 --> 01:30:26,580
us let me just um

2144
01:30:33,590 --> 01:30:30,060
by Curtis Peebles oh yes watch this

2145
01:30:35,629 --> 01:30:33,600
guy's Fame yeah yeah exactly this one's

2146
01:30:37,910 --> 01:30:35,639
about the um Skunk Works and other top

2147
01:30:39,709 --> 01:30:37,920
secret uh projects

2148
01:30:43,790 --> 01:30:39,719
um in Aerospace

2149
01:30:46,310 --> 01:30:43,800
Area 51 really good History Nice

2150
01:30:51,590 --> 01:30:46,320
this is the actual history of area 51.

2151
01:30:56,629 --> 01:30:53,750
all right yeah yeah you're feeling good

2152
01:30:58,490 --> 01:30:56,639
Nick yeah we hit an hour and a half it's

2153
01:31:01,070 --> 01:30:58,500
pretty good yeah yeah that's not bad

2154
01:31:04,010 --> 01:31:01,080
three uh three out of four we did uh

2155
01:31:06,350 --> 01:31:04,020
three half hours out of four there we go

2156
01:31:09,169 --> 01:31:06,360
there yeah half hour person that's how

2157
01:31:10,790 --> 01:31:09,179
it works right yeah oh Jeff Jeff knoxing

2158
01:31:12,709 --> 01:31:10,800
uh Occam's razor has to be one of the

2159
01:31:15,050 --> 01:31:12,719
most misquoted misrepresented things

2160
01:31:16,729 --> 01:31:15,060
yeah I do agree

2161
01:31:18,590 --> 01:31:16,739
um there's there's a part that always

2162
01:31:21,470 --> 01:31:18,600
gets left out in that um all things

2163
01:31:23,870 --> 01:31:21,480
being equal right so when we have equal

2164
01:31:26,030 --> 01:31:23,880
corroborating evidence or two opposing

2165
01:31:27,470 --> 01:31:26,040
things that's when Occam's Racers

2166
01:31:30,470 --> 01:31:27,480
usually applied

2167
01:31:33,290 --> 01:31:30,480
yeah it does I agree

2168
01:31:35,090 --> 01:31:33,300
yeah that makes it better yeah that's uh

2169
01:31:37,250 --> 01:31:35,100
that's a better saying we should we

2170
01:31:40,430 --> 01:31:37,260
should perpetuate that

2171
01:31:41,870 --> 01:31:40,440
okay well uh I guess that's it for

2172
01:31:43,970 --> 01:31:41,880
tonight

2173
01:31:47,510 --> 01:31:43,980
um yeah well I guess uh good night

2174
01:31:59,980 --> 01:31:47,520
everybody uh I'll uh take us off here

2175
01:32:38,500 --> 01:32:35,910
[Music]

2176
01:33:00,010 --> 01:32:38,510
[Applause]

2177
01:33:01,210 --> 01:33:00,020
[Music]

2178
01:33:35,149 --> 01:33:01,220
thank you